bigfootnampa Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 This is/was an interesting and informative discussion! Thanks to the OP for starting it! I will at least feel less guilty for omitting brushing in the future! IMO it is a good idea to examine traditional techniques like this often! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SReynolds Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 I read here scale leaves inperfections on the workpiece ...... (?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SReynolds Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Ain't we talkn' about hand forged items here................? I must have missed something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJergensen Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 The great smiths of yester-year made work that looked like it wasn't hand made. That was perfection. Being able to make 10 or 100 of the same thing with fairly high precision was impressive. Lack of hammer marks, etc, was attention to detail. Post-industrial smiths now often feature deliberate "imperfections" to emphasise the hand-made aspect of the work or for other artistic reasons. It's a different world now that machines turn out millions of items identical to .01" or less. So, depends on your goals... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allessence Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 The great smiths of yester-year made work that looked like it wasn't hand made. That was perfection. Being able to make 10 or 100 of the same thing with fairly high precision was impressive. Lack of hammer marks, etc, was attention to detail. Post-industrial smiths now often feature deliberate "imperfections" to emphasise the hand-made aspect of the work or for other artistic reasons. It's a different world now that machines turn out millions of items identical to .01" or less. So, depends on your goals... One of the strongest goals I have is to make the product with hammer and anvil.. Finishing by any means (filing, sanding , sand blasting, etc, etc) I refused to use it.. Never really have been a big fan as I taught myself to hammer it all the way to finished.. (some items you have to file for the finish so there are exclusions). Now with that being said I worked for 10 years as a professional blacksmith and I am a purist. (only time I would use a drill was making gates, drilling a hole to be tapped or suffolk latch thru pins.) Truth is even the old time smiths knew the faster a job got done the more profit there was and at the turn of the century when electric arc welders came onto the scene or tire shrinkers before that or keg made shoes.. Anything to work faster to get more profit in the pocket.. Anyhow, anytime you can speed up the time frame you will increase productivity and hopefully make the job easier so you can do more.. and make more.. Larger anvil, power hammer.. guilotine swage.. spriing swedges, Swage blocks went out just as tire shrinkers did.. Once there was a faster way... Oh, and as a blacksmith perfects his/her skill set the work will also start to look the same even if its custom stuff vs stuff they make day in and day out.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 I might as well throw in here about another tool I've seen used to remove scale - which is a scraper. A fairly sharp anvil edge also works but I have seen at least two smiths who liked short handled scrapers with a hard piece of steel inserted. The working end can be as simple as an old file with the teeth ground down so it doesn't leave a bunch of small scratches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJS Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I read here scale leaves inperfections on the workpiece ...... (?) Ain't we talkn' about hand forged items here................? I must have missed something. Yes to both... There is a very specific look that I am going for. There is a texture that you get from the scaling process, but it is not big ugly chunks of scale, or deep divots from the scale being pounded in, and then popping off. There is a look I find very attractive, and to my eye displays a great deal of skill and attention to detail. Look closely at the forged to finish hammers where only the faces are sanded and polished, between the polished ends there is a satin sheen to the steel. Yes, there is texture, yes the surface is pitted slightly, but it is very even, smooth, and DELIBERATE. There are several ways to display your skill, having a good finish on your finished product is one of them, there are several techniques that can get you that finish in the end, wire brushing during the forging process helps, keeping the anvil face clean helps, using water, and scrappers, and controlling your temps skillfully all are displayed in the finished product... Unless you just sandblast the whole lot, and paint, where you loose some of the nuisances. Have you ever read about how they did the finishing on some of the interior pieces in the Samuel Yellin Shop, can't remember if it was in one of the books on Yellin, or if it was in some of George DIxon's writing in the Hammers Blow, or the Artist Blacksmith's Quarterly. But they emphasized the texture being developed in the finishing process. I doubt they used wire brushes much, But they are cheap and available now days and we have a great variety of them and they can be very useful... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted November 15, 2014 Author Share Posted November 15, 2014 SJS I have come to understand over the years that the filing and polishing of old iron work (bright work)was done to help prevent rust from forming and that the iron was not steel but wrought iron to this day those items still maintain a smooth surface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rthibeau Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 I use a wire brush because them plastic ones don't last at all. oh.....misread the topic.............nevermind.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SReynolds Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 I use a wire brush because them plastic ones don't last at all. oh.....misread the topic.............nevermind.... "I met a man with a wooden leg named Smith......." "What was the name of his other leg" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted December 2, 2014 Author Share Posted December 2, 2014 Only after all the forging is done dose he pick up a brushwww.youtube.com/watch?v=1NIG7k50OW0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Only after all the forging is done dose he pick up a brush www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NIG7k50OW0 As others have stated...when the material is at a bright forging or welding temp, scale forms continuously at every blow and does not cease to form until the temp gets low enough that the reaction stops. This is easily observed by the pile of scale found around anvils and power hammers. Brushing at every heat might therefore appear to be a waste of time but to each his own. Frequent brushing may change the surface texture enough to suit the individual smith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted December 13, 2014 Author Share Posted December 13, 2014 SReynolds just for you here is a picture of my brushes. I only use them to clean off the anvil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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