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rivets/pin header breakthrough


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Attempting the manufacture of rivets/pins etc has resulted in great frustration. Especailly in the demonstration to paying students.

 

Tried this with several different techniques. All which mutilate the end in an attemp to upset said rivet/pin. the drilled block of steel/ clamped inside a vise to hold stock whilest upsetting made most sense to me.

 

'Cept the fact that if that block of steel is not of good carbon steel, the upsetting action results in mutilation of the steel block surrounding the hole.

 

Thus the method of draw-out.

 

Just like the making of a nail. I'd guess that most pins and rivets can be drawn. Except them which are many inches long, thus upsetting and THEN heading would be employed.

 

With the said nail method, there is no upsetting. Just heading the durn pin/rivet, after the draw-out to a given length.  Yeah....sorta a method of upsetting, but it's heading , so half-dozen of one and six the other. I use the pin header just like a nail header. When the drawn portion passes through the small end of the tapered hole, it is drawn down to size. 

 

This may be "cheating" in blacksmith terms, but if you can acomplish something with less frustration and time, then why not, eh? Besides; some "blacksmiths" use an oxy torch to heat and bend,,,,, and the wife's kitchen stove/oven to temper, so.........(?????) It's not all bad.

 

I had to repeat many  times over. I simply couldn't believe it. That is; why I hadn't thought of this long/long time ago, whilest making nails all these years...............dang!!

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Upseting matrix from the compleat blacksmith, tool steel die, like used to double flair tubeing, up set the end over the rod of the anvil (good heat and a big hammer) then cut if and head in a header threw the hardy hole, dedicated heding block (thickness sets length)

Lots of ways to skin that cat, in luting forge welding on a head...

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You are correct. One "could" weld a head on the round stock be it a pin or a rivet. Lots 'o ways. I have tried many and the simple task of "draw out" seems to fit best to make shorter pins. Longer rivets/pins may best be suited to upset them by striking the opposite end (cold end) and then use a header. 

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For most rivets I have used a pair of blocks drilled down the joint line and ground a drill to cut a flat bottom. You need a set of blocks with a deep hole for each diameter and then can just use square ended spacers to give different shank lengths. The blocks are held in the vice and then come apart easily to release the headed rivet. You can hold them together with snap clamps on the anvil as an alternative.

I usually heat the rivet with gas torch. The rivet is held in the tool but projecting a few mm out of the tool so I can heat the "head plus a bit" without playing the torch on the tool, the first tap seats it back in and then upset and shape.

These tools are just mild steel, most of the rivets I make have been from 316 stainless. I have not had any problems with damage, how were your problems coming about?

Alan

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When upsetting. The top of the block, surrounding the rivet hole. It simply is destroyed after a couple of rivets. I make 5/16 and 3/8 from 1018 round stock.

 

Yes, I'm heating to yellow heat and then place the soon to be rivet or pin into header block. Assembly  sets in the vice so I drop it in and clamp tight,then forge the pin head.

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The tools are similar to mine are they? Those are made from 50mm x 25mm or 40mm x 20mm (2" x 1" or 1 1/2" x 3/4") the smallest shank is 3mm (1/8") the largest is 20mm (3/4") the loose rivets are 16mm (5/8")

How is the face of the tool being impacted? Destroyed by the hot metal of the rivet or mishits by the hammer? You are upsetting with the flat face of the hammer and not the ball pein? Are you continuing to hammer after it has lost its colour?

The worst that has happened to mine is the crisp edge of the hole gets softened so the tool needs to be refaced occasionally in order that the rivet shank holds its diameter, but that is only after a fair few rivets, and most of my experience has been with stainless which is very hard on mild steel tooling...

Are you heating the whole rivet in the fire so that maybe the tool is getting hot before you have finished the heading up?

Sorry it doesn't help you for me to say I haven't had any problems but I am puzzled as to what we are doing differently.

Do you have any problems when you actually use the finished rivet on the work piece?

Alan

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I haven't had much trouble either;-) but some suggestions to help. Use a what our English and Aussie freinds call a Snap (and we call it a rivet set) to form the head. If you are making 5 clout heads turn some tool steel with a domed head so there is more clearance for the face of your hammer. Don't use a ballpein, except maybe to finish the head. If you do the math right,1.5x-2x the diameter above the die stock, and a well centered blow it will generally upset nicely. Then all you have to do is make it look nice...

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Alan, I've used your technique and it works fine for me. Quick and easy. Hardest part is drilling the tool blank.



I make use of my self centring four jaw chuck in the lathe to drill them. Which is why they are made from 2:1 ratio flat, two together form a square. I tack weld them together, and then pop them in the lathe, face both ends and drill.

I have a great little book which has very clear illustrations of general engineering workshop processes. I learnt to sharpen drills and lathe tools from it. It also has an excellent couple of pages about riveting which may be of help to somebody...book is entitled "pictorial guide to engineering workshop practice" by H. Grisbrook and C. Phillipson. ISBN 0 7100 7415 8. Written in 1942 my print is from 1980 by Routledge & Kegan Paul ltd. It is out of print I think but worth looking out for...

Alan

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