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I Forge Iron

wagon wheel rims - pretty sure they're wrought iron


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i'm a newly-emerging and learning larval blacksmith, taking kirk mcneil's cba level 1 class at freedom forge in santa cruz.  as such, i've been thinking about all things blacksmith, including how to find materials.  craigslist i am very familiar with, and i've used it to find my anvil, forge, coal...and now some wrought iron (i think!).

 

i happened to be going to santa clara for a meeting yesterday, and was perusing craigslist earlier in the week just to pass the time.  i found a pair of wagon wheels advertised, and decided to buy them against the idea they were wrought iron.  fortunately kirk suggested to look for the forge weld of the wheel, since i wouldn't be in a position to cut them up; it's his idea that later steel wheels weren't forge welded the same way, if at all (i have no clue).

 

so i bought them yesterday, because i found welds on both tires.  and i brought them to a friend's shop at lunch today, and used his power saw to cut a piece out, then through halfway, then bent it to see if there was any grain.  based on the attached pics, i think i'm rolling in wrought (pun intended).

 

it's 7/16" thick, and 3" wide, and if straightened out i have about 18' of stock to work with.  i was thinking of sawing a bunch lenghwise into 1:1 cross-sections, a bunch into 1:2 cross sections, and trying various things with them.  i was thinking i'd make some gate handles and latching mechanisms, tongs, hooks, simple things befitting a beginning blacksmith...but lacking any real knowledge (having never worked wrought iron at all), i am open to suggestions :)

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Over here in Australia that stuff is becoming increasingly rare. Put the wrought away somewhere safe and learn on steel, do your practise pieces in steel and then drag the wrought out when you want to make something really valuable. Andrew

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hmm.  that's actually a good point, andrew.  i'd not really considered that.

 

i *would* like to make some of the outdoors stuff (gate handles and locks) from this, because it weathers so well.  but simple things like hooks, etc., you're right.

 

what would *you* make out of it?  btw, i just went to your website.  NICE!  that might answer my question, but i am wondering what "valuable" can be made of wrought iron.  knives i know (hardware and backing for tool/cutting steel), scuplture (someone posted leaves out of wrought iron on here that were really nice)...and?

 

best,

bill

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Something I always wanted to do (if I get some nice wrought iron) is make shear steel from the piece, then double shear. From that steel make a nice blade for the kitchen or a pocket/belt blade.

 

That could be something to do.

 

I know it might be ruining the wrought iron from one perspective but you would be creating something very unique from another.

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 I'm going to get in trouble here, but I gotta say it....I'd just as soon you cut up an old anvil to get yer wrought iron and leave the old equipment intact......they're not making it any more either .... Dave,      the guy that wants to learn to sharpen plow shares. :D

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Sounds like a pretty good score Bill. The one thing I would NOT do is cut them up like you describe. Trying to imagine what you're going to need before you know what you need is pretty common for anyone new to a trade/craft. You'd be farther ahead selling one tire and buying a craigslist cutoff saw so you can cut ONLY what you need off a long bar of parent stock. Seriously, a hack saw will part it out more than fast enough to justify NOT selling any.

 

If you cut them all into 3-6" long pieces what are you going to do WHEN you need a 2' long piece? Start looking for more? Maybe not even bid on the project? Forge weld a bunch back together? I wouldn't even straighten them, certainly NOT both. Take a look around the web at how much a nice wrought chandelier is going for.

 

Remember the old joke, "I've cut this three times and it's still too short!" how about keeping that a joke and Candid Camera visual gag, eh?

 

Frosty The Lucky.

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Yeah, what Frosty said- don't pre-cut in anticipation of ???  I have a stock of 1/4"square I got from a guy, all nicely cut int 2 1/2- 3" pieces. A real nuisance to use. Cut a few chunks to play around with now, but cut the rest to fit what you will make with it when you're ready to make it. You have some good stuff there.

 

That said, it is yours- you can do what you want with it.

 

Steve

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thanks all. good advice on the cutting. I will keep the second wheel whole, and use up the first.

I never thought to cut it into shorts. what I meant was to rip it, along its length, into pieces whose thickness:width ratio was 1:1 or 1:2; that would leave me with (say) 8' of 7/16x7/16 stock, and the same of 7/16x7/8 stock. *that* I could cut down as needed. sorry I was unclear.

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  Madwing...glad you are putting those wheels to good use. I'm just sayin' , I bet there is more than one old carpenter or wheelwright that could put that wood back in there and repurpose those rims. Which is harder to come by, the wood or the rim ? Just another way to look at the picture......it's all good.......thanks for sharing        Dave 

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Wrought Iron is harder to learn on especially coarse wrought iron.  Strongly suggest you make your learning mistakes on regular steel and move into working wrought once your skills are solid.

 

I've been picking up wagon and buggy tyres at the scrap yard for 20 cents a pound; got about 20 now as I do historic reproduction at times and so need historic materials for the fussy folks.  Since my WI pile has been growing latley I plan to work on switching out all my living history kit to real wrought iron.  (Doing the pots I dread...)

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What would I make?

chandelier, jewellery display stands, roses, leaves, any scrollwork that requires fine and intricate forge welding because wrought forge welds so much better and easier than steel and if done properly has that blacksmithing "WOW" factor, the one where people look and ask how you did that, and if it's really good other blacksmiths ask the same question.

 

Andrew

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In the industrial sense, wrought iron can't do anything steel cannot. It is a decidedly inferior material and that is why it is no longer produced. Iron (wrought or otherwise) has a significantly lower strength / weight ratio than steel. Even its weathering properties are hugely outclassed by modern alloys and finishes.

 

From an artistic sense, the texture - especially of low-grade wrought - can be very interesting.

 

Historically, it's significance is huge: if you smith for history, it's The Thing. If you want to connect with historical work, there really is no substitute. It's a challenge. It's softer. It's more forgiving and finickier. It explains many habits and best practices (part of the whole Square->Octagonal->Round has to do with how slag inclusions in wrought lead to splitting).

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Jay it is what blacksmiths used for the first 2000 years or so of the craft; now superseded by mild steel, A36, and other "modern alloys"---BUT what would you say about a woodworker doing historical replicas that only worked with particle board, OSB and MDF?

Pluses: it loves to be worked at heats that most modern alloys are burning like a sparkler and so it is very very soft indeed!
It is "self fluxing" and combined with tolerating high heats forge welds A LOT EASIER than modern alloys
It has an interesting pattern to it when etched or allowed to substantially rust.
It is rust resistant to a degree---why so much of it is left around.

Minuses it is harder to work at cooler temps---wants to fray, It is juicy to work at high temps and welding---wear your PPE! It has differing properties with vs against the direction it was originally rolled/forged. (Hence the bi-directional rolled plate they came up with late in the WI period) It can be very trashy indeed! WI starts out as a bloom then is processed into muck bar which is processed into merchant bar which is processed into singly refined wrought iron and thence into doubly refined and then triply refined. Lower grades have a lot more slag in them and in larger chunks.

However it was what the smith used pretty much entirely before the Bessemer/Kelly process of the 1850's and to a much smaller degree the Huntsman cast steel process of the 1700's

If you do modern work and do not need the plasticity of wrought or the patina no problem not using it! It will make your life much easier.

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i'm taking kirk mcneill's class, and burned up a piece of tool steel when i was xxxx near to annealing a slitting chisel (xxxxxx).  he sent me home with the burned piece, as a reminder to watch my heat.

 

i don't know for anything, really, so am going to cut the burned inch out of the steel, and make a little sandwich out of the wrought iron and the steel, and see if i can learn to weld.  i'll play with little pieces and keep the stock to make my gate handles and whatnot.  i'll give some to friends.  i'll keep it whole until it's time to use it...

 

thomas, thanks for the mini-essay about wrought.  very interesting.  you're dead right about the woodworker...he'd go crazy if that's what he had to work with and keep historical authenticity.  hell, my mother-in-law bought old, ruined furniture in italy made of walnut and chestnut in the 1500s and 1600s so when she refinished a piece if she needed wood from the period, she had it...

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