Joel OF Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Just wondering what people's thoughts are on anchors / grouts / resins, and which you choose for which jobs? What sort of considerations go into your choice e.g weight, which plain the stresses are coming from, security, ease of installation, possibility of removing for maintenance etc As a newbie I've done very little exterior ironwork in the way of railings, gates etc so haven't had much experience with fixings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Each has it's own strengths and weaknesses. A lot depends on what you need to do and if it needs to be removable or not. If I'm drilling/boring and setting posts, usually I prefer to use hydraulic cements or grouts. That's usually cheaper than say epoxy. However in cold conditions some epoxies may be a better choice. Hole size would vary depending on if I'm using epoxy or grout. Usually this is one of the most secure ways to anchor hand rails and things that take a lot of abuse. I did work on one restoration job they poured lead to set the posts to be historically accurate. If it absolutely, positively can not come loose, epoxy. They make all sorts of easy to use epoxies today. Some are designed for specialized dispensers, others are capsules to drop in holes, others can be dispensed with standard caulking guns. They sell special mesh units for using epoxy in hollow block for wall anchors. Epoxies can be used to set solid or threaded bar, studs or female threads. Mechanical anchors, there are all sorts. I'm partial to tapcons and concrete screws/lags for a lot of things as they can be installed and removed easily. I usually keep a wide selection of those on the truck. Given a choice I prefer the 1/4" hex drive ones vs the philips drive or the smaller sized ones. For other applications wedge anchors, lead sleeves, drive studs all have their place. I like to use the drive type female anchors when I need to be able to install tools and so on in the shop floor and want to be able to remove them for storage. Then I'll run an Allen screw or slotted threaded bolt in the female to keep dirt and crud out when not in use. Hammer drill case on the truck has the drive set tools for 3/8" and 1/2" bolts. If I'm doing work in masonry, I'll often fab up an anchor plate and have the masons set it in the block/stone. Then I can weld directly to that and don't have to mess with their work that in most cases hasn't fully cured yet. Down side is not all masons really give a darn if they locate these accurately, so some times you may need to be there when they set these. Key to using most of these is proper installation. Dirt/dust in holes can greatly reduce the holding power of many of these. With epoxies I always brush and blow out the holes to make sure I get a clean bond with the base material. I fabbed up a long 1/4" tube, silver soldered to a blow gun to reach down in deep holes to blow out dust on one job where we had to set hundreds of anchors with epoxy when they screwed up the anchor locations when they poured. Same goes with drive bolts/anchors if it is important they stay tight. Tapcons/concrete lags it doesn't matter as much, but if you get too much dust in the holes the anchors won't fully seat some times. Drill size is also critical and some anchors use "odd" size bits specific to those fasteners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaughnT Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 DSW pretty much covers it all. The only thing I'll add is to suggest using silicone caulk on the backface of anything you're affixing to the outside. A sconce, for example, looks great on the wall, but as moisture gets behind it, between the iron and the wall, you'll get rust. What I do is butter the back face of whatever it is, then install it and let the silicone caulk seep out around the edges. You can wipe off the excess real easy and be assured of a nice tight joint between the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel OF Posted September 23, 2014 Author Share Posted September 23, 2014 Cheers. What about on the lightweight end of the scale with things like handrails up to a front door? I've heard from a couple sources that simple plastic rawl plugs and woodscrews can handle a fair bit if they're going into decent bricks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRS Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 If you have a solid, cured concrete and a lot of screws to set "concrete screws" are a fast way. I don´t know about the approval/availability in the US. Take a good (new) stone drill, drill the hole- remove the dust- bolt it down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Brick can be tough as it's not always a good material to drill. I've used those plastic anchors, but in quite a few situations I've just used the old wooden pegs ( or replaced them if they were pretty beat.) that were driven into the holes and wood screws used. It accomplishes a similar function as the plastic plugs. These however are usually my last resort. I prefer tapcons for this. I don't have to drill an over sized hole to insert the anchor. http://www.tapcon.com/products Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel OF Posted October 9, 2014 Author Share Posted October 9, 2014 I used a UK version of those Tapcon screws the other day for fitting a railing panel between 2 brick piers - I used a brand that had quite a deep thread & generally felt like they'd have a lot more bite than some concrete screws you see which barely have a thread at all. 3 out of 5 worked but I had to fall back to Fischer screws with plastic anchors for the 2 that didn't take. I'd tried these 'no achor' fixings once before and didn't like them, but recently I've heard good things about them from various sources so I thought I'd give them another try - I doubt I will again. I think unless the screw enters the hole at exactly the right angle the screw will just kill the hole and the thread won't bite, they don't re-centre themselves like ones with plastic anchors do. These quick snaps show what I mean. It was raining when I installed so I didn't paint over the screw heads, I'm going back to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Cheers. What about on the lightweight end of the scale with things like handrails up to a front door? I've heard from a couple sources that simple plastic rawl plugs and woodscrews can handle a fair bit if they're going into decent bricks? <script type="text/javascript"> // Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Problem I've found with brick is that it's brittle and soft. Holes often get drilled slightly over sized and then Tapcon type anchors won't work. Also in some cases the brick crumbles as you drive the fastener and the material around the tapcon "strips" so they will not hold. I've had similar issues on occasion in very old true "cinder" block ( not the newer concrete block) Brick may look pretty, but I hate fastening to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 <script type="text/javascript"> // <script type="text/javascript"> // Rawlplugs and good quality hardened and plated screws work fine, have some that have served well for over 30 years Notes from course for guild members info Depend on the situation and purpose you are using the fixing for, IE; is it in shear stress, or is it in tension, what loads are being envisaged when in use, building regulations/requirements etc Each method of fixing has it's own strengths and weaknesses. A lot depends on what you need to do and if it needs to be removable or not. Holes drilled need to be clean and free from dust, (You can use a hand held air pump, old bicycle pump, air bed inflator to blow out the dust on site.) The fixing location needs to be sound. Fixing Types To attach fittings to walls/floors, most of these can be removable if required relatively simply by undoing the screw or nut being used Plugs and screws are adequate in sound brick/ concrete, they need to be correct size and adequate for the job they are intended to do, go for a good quality hardened screw, Self Tapping screws for concrete (aka Thunderbolts, Tapcon, Concrete Screwbolt) again adequate for job, need specific correct size hole to be drilled for each size (Varies by maker), essential that hole is clean and dust free. Expanding anchor bolts, (eg Rawlbolts, Fischerbolts) again of appropriate size for situation, may be a screw in bolt type, or have a projecting thread to fit a nut on to secure the item in place Chemical fixings, various types available, select the ones appropriate for the situation, some with limited shelf life, follow the manufacturers instructions. Permanent fixings Rag the end of the mounting to be secured, location hole to be dry and free from moisture and an appropriate size, cast in lead and caulk to secure, then caulk a watershed around the area to seal. Use appropriate safety equipment and precautions. Rapid setting concrete, a modern alternative to the lead is also available and can be used underwater or damp conditions. Epoxies and chemicals can also be used Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockstar.esq Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 DSW covered it very well. Plastic anchors allow a small measure of wiggle room if the hole isn't perfectly located. Tapcons are great and fast for a lot of applications but they're not especially good for pulling something snug. Once they've been driven tight, they'll hold quite well but you can't rely on a tapcon to pull an assembly plumb if it's not already straight. Lead anchors offer a big step up in that regard because they get secured by impact wedging. Anchors that require twisting to set aren't really secure until they're fully driven home. Embeds are the superior option if you can manage it. Brick can be a wild card, I recall a Journeyman showing me what he called "Chicago Common" bricks. They were used for fire stopping between tenants in old retail buildings. It became fashionable for modern tenants to leave these walls exposed. It didn't take long for kids to figure out they could carve their initials into the brick with their fingernails! As I recall, the tenants had to use large steel plates with through bolts in order to have firm anchor points for their racking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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