Forging Heavily Rusted Mystery Steel? Also "From-Nothing Smithing".

[BrianH]

I had a fun learning experience planned out, but then realized that I didn't know if it was even possible.

 

First, the main question: Can one forge heavily rusted (not quite falling apart, but past "100% pitted surface") "mystery steel" using a wood/charcoal forge? If so, are there any special considerations I need to worry about?

 

Just guessing, but I'd reckon (at least) one of 3 things would happen: 1. The hot carbon could actually Reduce the rust back into un-oxidized Iron/Steel; 2. The rust (which probably trapped some sort of dirt/minerals) would just turn to Scale and fall off (or get pounded into the base Iron as Inclusions if I didn't remove them properly); or 3. The Iron would just fall apart (from heat expanding all the rusted micro-fissures) before I could forge them back together.

 

Here's the "why do you ask?": I wanted to do a "Building From 'Scratch'" learning experience. Walking along the beaches in my area (along an inland sea with partial access to Pacific Ocean), I noticed just how much metal there really is "just laying there". Most of this is in the form of very large bolts (1 inch diameter by 18 inches long or 2.5 by 45 cm) going through old "barrier logs" or broken dock pieces, or bits of Rebar protruding from pieces of broken concrete. Occasionally, one might find an old gate post with several large nails and a rusted/twisted hinge still on it.

 

I'm fairly handy in the woods, but I'm no Les "Suvivorman" Stroud, so I plan on "cheating" on several aspects: having a tent, a cooler/backpack of food, a fishing pole, a canoe, and probably even my truck parked nearby. xxxx, I'll probably do this over several "visits"/camping trips that might be weeks or months apart. I know of some REALLY rural/desolate islands/beaches within easy reach of a few good "car camping" locations.

 

As for the Forging aspects, which is the point of this particular exercise, I want to keep it as basic as possible: Only start with the "tools" I'd normally have on me any time while hiking/boating: a pocket knife, a lighter, a multi-tool (includes small hacksaw and general purpose "SawzAll" blades), length of "paracord", Magnesium fire-starter/"FireSteel", a leather belt, a roll of electrical tape, and of course my clothes. Those are actually all part of my "EveryDay Carry"... Everything else, including stock metal, will have to be found/scrounged "on-site".

 

My "Mk 1 Forge" will be a driftwood campfire in pit in the beach sand, mostly surrounded by large rocks. If I found some natural clay to make basic cobblestone/cob, maybe make it slightly "beehive"-/"volcano"-shaped to hold in the heat and create a natural draft. Additional draft would be from hand-fanning the fire with something large and flat, maybe a piece of scrap plywood that floated ashore.

 

"Mk 1 Anvil" will probably be a Granite boulder with a fairly flat top, or maybe a smoother Chert stone on top of said Granite boulder.

 

"Mk 1 Smithing Hammer(s)" will probably be a roughly "grapefruit"-sized rock, either held in my hand or maybe tied between some sticks. Probably multiple rocks unless I manage to find a good one with a rounded end (AKA, "Ball-Peen Hammer"), a flattened end (umm... 'normal' "Sledgehammer"), and maybe even a straight "line" edged part (like a "Cross-Peen Hammer").

 

Basic idea is to "start with (next to) nothing and make tools to make slightly better tools to make better tools and see how far I can get with only items found on a stretch of beach and some woods." That said, considering almost all my metal would have floated through salt-water, if one can't really Forge heavily rusted steel/iron, my plan is broken from the start.

 

Brian H.

[VaughnT]

It's an interesting idea.  I note several issues that you'll want to consider.

 

1:  From a survival aspect, there's nothing about forging an XYZ that will help you get by for a few days in the wild.  As a practitioner of primitive skills, I can tell you that the time and energy invested will actually hurt your survival chances if this was a real situation.  No sense practicing for something that will actually hurt you if you ever found yourself in a sticky wicket.

 

2:  A granite anvil is more than sufficient for the finest smithing.  Anvil stones were quite common in Europe and a lot of the viking cultures used them even when they were making incredibly beautiful works.  A granite hammer would also work to some degree, but you'll have to get it on a good handle to get your mitt away from the heat and a possible burn.  Burns in a survival situation are just another thing to hamper your ability to get by.

 

3:  How much smithing experience do you have?  If you are low on the experience, maximize the fun of the experiment by getting some of that metal home where you can tinker in relative comfort.  Learn what you can before you head out in the wilds to play Les Stroud (great show, btw)

 

4:  Some of that metal you're finding on the shores could very well be actual wrought iron from way back in the day.  These long bolts you speak of, for example, could definitely be something you want to explore further.  Not only does wrought iron have different working characteristics than mild steel, it's got value to other smiths and is something you could sell.

 

5:  Getting the metal free of whatever it's stuck in (rebar in concrete) will be a chore and a half.  Definitely not worth the trouble for a weekend camp.

 

6:   If you have a piece that's heavily scaled, expect the fire to loosen that scale so it falls off.  What you're left with, the core, will still be forgeable, but it might not be worth the effort depending on the size.  Your fire won't reconstitute the scale or melt it back into the parent bar.  However, the earthy, organic shape of the parent stock can often be incredibly attractive, shaped in a way that humans hands could never duplicate.

[jmccustomknives]

I use quite a bit of old Wrought Iron found metal detecting.  As you would expect, it is a mess.  You have to wire brush the stuff off.  Forging will remove the rest.  To re-smelt would take a lot of heat, only those guys set up to do that kind of stuff would be able to do that.

[Alan Evans]

VaughanT obviously has a well rounded view of your enterprise...from the hammer side of things you have already have a much more versatile tool than a rock with one of the 25mm bolts. My first heat would be the end of one of those, pound it on the anvil on one side which would give you a flat and a Dee cross section...instant flat and straight pein hammer....

Alan

[Timothy Miller]

I just forged out a heavily pitted section of very thick leaf spring.  Normaly I would have scrapped the material but I needed the material right then and there. What happens is the rust falls off and some is converted to scale that then falls off.  You are left behind with very pitted metal.  Depending on your skill you can work some of these pits out as the forging prigresses by reducing the thickness in those places thus leveling and smoothing the surface.  I was doing a drastic reduction in size so I was able to get rid of most of the pits.  Those that I did not forge out wound up as long thin inclusions in the surface.  I ended up grinding away the surface to get rid of all the degraded metal so I could have a sound forging.  Its not really worth the effort but very rusty steel can be used. 

[Frosty]

I spent some 20 years as an exploration driller for the geology section of the state of AK DOT and PF. I did about 3/4 of that time in the field most in tents somewhere in the Alaskan bush. Most drillers feel it's  more important to drink beer after work than I did so I played in the fire with whatever steel I found. I usually used a driller's hammer and pair of tongs I filched out of the drill shop and whatever I found for an anvil.

 

I did on one occasion use rocks and a boulder when one of the office geos said I had to have specialized tools. I used the charcoal from the camp fire, a piece of found pipe for the air blast, some found sheet as an air funnel so I didn't need to make bellows. My anvil stone was a piece of ultramafic which is a really fine grained metamorphic shiny black maybe hornblend stone of about 200lbs. My hammer was another shiny black river rock about two large fists worth and potato shaped.

 

I recommend longish rather than round, MUCH easier to haft. My tongs were willow branches. I reinforced one end for a couple inches back fro the end with found wire then split from the other end. Slip the stock into the willow withe to the wired end and clamp it tight in my hand from the other. OR just pinch the stock between the ends

 

The hammer handle was twisted from small willow branches and woven into the handle itself. Not great but they worked so long as you rebuild them when they start to loosen up.

 

From there I just scooped coals out of the camp fire into the trench forge in front of the blast pipe and forged away. My first item should've been a better hammer handle and that would've been REALLY easy seeing as there was a lot of rod stock in the 5/16" to 5/8" range. However, my first item was a cut off from a bolt. And then out I made my usual toasting skewers, fire pokers and branding irons.

 

Were it a serious survival situation whether I went to the trouble to make a field expedient forge or not would depend on the need. Survival is a matter of economics, you MUST gain more than you spend. A person who spends a couple days forging a spear had better darned well be able to feed the survivors for a significant number of days on the meat or s/he's just going to be another name lost in the wild and a memory.

 

Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

 

Field expedient smithing with found stock and tools is a FINE pursuit when camping. I HIGHLY recommend it. It's a terrific skill builder and imagination stretcher. Try imagining yourself in a post apocalyptic world where all you have is what you can make for yourself and going to be there from now on. You BET you can refine that rusty scale back into iron and steel but it ain't going to be easy. You're going to need a bloomery but what the hey. <grin>

 

For a self drafting field furnace I like a hill furnace. It's basically a long trench in a goodly slope. You keep it covered full length with wood and the wood keeps it closed enough the draft from the bottom provides a blast furnace of sorts while the wood pyrolizes into coals. I've gotten welding and heck I imagine bloomery heat in one about 1' wide and 6' long but boy could that baby eat wood.

 

If I could've found some decent flags or even sheet steel to cover it it would've worked a screaming hot treat.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

[ThomasPowers]

Real Wrought Iron will probably need to be re-welded up and be a very messy weld at very high temps indeed! Hard to get with an improvised forge without prior experimentation and experience.

Didn't notice you mentioning safety glasses---ever hike out with your eyes blindfolded?

Again if you are an experienced smith this might be fun; if you are just starting off it is more likely to be misery. If you know the basics you can work up from that, I'd advise starting with a pair of tongs and a hammer and using a rock as an anvil.