Jump to content
I Forge Iron

advice on a wall mounted coat rack


Recommended Posts

Hi,

 

I'm still very much a beginner.  I'd like to try and make a simple wall mounted coat rack.  However, I'm having trouble determining the best way to attach the hooks to the mounting plate ( could be round or rectangular ).

 

I don't think rivets will work because the back of the rivet will push the mounting plate away from the wall.

 

I can't forge weld to save my life and I'm not sure how well it would work if I could.

 

Any suggestions on how to join the hooks to the plate?  Perhaps rivets are the way to go?

 

Thanks!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Taper the holes in the back of the plate. Then when you upset the rivet, the rivet fills the tapered hole and can be flush with the back and still hold well. This works better with thicker material than thin sheet.

 

 

Next idea is to dish the backing plate. Now the plate is curved forward, and there is space for a flat rivet on the back. You could also counter sink the plates in the back if they are thick enough and upset into the recess.

 

 

I'm planning a set of towel bars for a customer right now with backing plates. My plan is to use one of the above methods to attach the bar to the plates. Which one I'll use will depend on what plates I get back from a friend who is CNC cutting a bunch of different "test" pieces for me to play with.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Greetings Adham,

 

Rivets are my choice ...  Do you have a rivet set??  I countersink the back ... Use a rivet set in the vice to keep the round head form.... Upset the back side into the countersink..   You can make a set by sinking a ball bearing into a 5/8 round bar than forge the lower section flat to hold in the vise...  Good luck with your project...

 

Forge on and make beautiful things

Jim

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The above are all good suggestions for a successful project.

 

Make sure you find out how your client wants to mount said hook rack. Check the distance between centers on the wall studs, if its going on a wall, so you get the screw holes in the right place. Bob (countersink) the screw holes so the screw is flush with the finish surface. Nothing say amateur. like a screw head that sticks out and catches things.  

 

Remember to keep up your shop log and take notes in regard material count, dimensions and finish in your project log so you can easily duplicate the process in the future. This way you recover the time and effort spent on R&D.

 

Good luck.

 

Peter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks all!  The customer is me!  :-)

 

I do not have a rivet set or a welder.  I think I'm going to go with the countersink method, so I'm not sure I need the rivet set.  I do need a rivet header to make a nice looking head.  Perhaps a rivet set can be used for making the round head and setting the rivet?

 

I think I will try punching the holes from the back and using a tapered drift.  This should make the back of the hole wider than the front so that I can countersink.  I'm going to have to practice on that because its really an art to get the length of the rivet correct.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Instead of a drift, you may want to consider drilling partway for the sink, especially if it's thin material. I find it a bit easier, and very consistent.

 

Or, with a wooden backer, you could attach the hooks directly through the iron into the wood with decorative nails instead of rivetting, nails clinched or not as needed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi,
 
I'm still very much a beginner.  I'd like to try and make a simple wall mounted coat rack.  However, I'm having trouble determining the best way to attach the hooks to the mounting plate ( could be round or rectangular ).
 
I don't think rivets will work because the back of the rivet will push the mounting plate away from the wall.
 
I can't forge weld to save my life and I'm not sure how well it would work if I could.
 
Any suggestions on how to join the hooks to the plate?  Perhaps rivets are the way to go?
 
Thanks!

 

How flat is the wall? If it is uneven or convex you might do well to keep the backplate clear of the wall apart from at the fixing points anyway.

You can leave a large rivet head on the back if you joggled the ends of your back plate to deliberately take it clear of the wall.

As others have said countersink the rivet holes and rivet flush. If you have a problem and the rivet is too big you can always file or grind a bit off.

You can experiment with the amount of protrusion. Obviously depends on the size of your countersink. But start with 1 to 1.5 x the diameter of your rivet and see how it goes. You don't want to go beyond twice the diameter because you will then risk bending rather than upsetting.

You need very little swelling of the head to make it impossible to pull through the backplate. A small countersink is all that is required. If you start tapering the hole you will likely run into problems with the rivet bending along its length rather than upsetting the head. It needs to be a good fit in the holes to support the shank and keep it straight.

When riveting, a classic error is to use the ball pein of the hammer. Always use the flat and certainly at least to start the upset. If you use the ball you tend to make a mushroom shape without swelling out the shank. It is much weaker. You also get that delightful ring of dimples all round the rivet head. :)

I rarely use a rivet snap because I prefer a faceted head rather than a hemispherical one, so the rivets are squished with the flat of the hammer straight down and then four more angled facets to make it into the frustum of a pyramid. (Flat topped). It is called a five clout head. Smaller rivets I use a polished flat ended punch to create the facets to ensure that I do not bruise the surrounding surface.

Well worth exploring, it is such a fundamental fixing system for blacksmiths. Arguably the best from the point of view of displaying the structure of the piece, making it accessible to the viewer.

Alan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You don't need a rivet set, unless you plan to totally heat the rivet when you go to set it. Then having a plate with a "hole" the shape of the rivet head will help protect the shape on the front, while you head the back. There are any number of ways you can do this and make one yourself. Assuming you are using premade rivets and not ones you forge yourself, a ball bearing the same size as the rivet head will work. Just heat the plate and drive the ball in until the rivet head is flush with the top of the plate. You can also use a spare rivet to do this. Usually what I do is drill a hole just slightly smaller than the actual rivet shank. Then I heat the shank, And drive a spare rivet in until it's seated. let cool. Now when the rod shrinks, the rivet will stay in place and you can use that as a punch to get your dimple. If you mess up the rivet head though, you'll have to cut it off and start over with a new spare rivet. I've also drilled the size of the rivet shaft and used locktite to set the rivet. Since locktite for studs breaks down with heat, you can get it back apart by heating the end of the tool. You do have to watch you don't soften the locktite thru use, so keep the punch cool.

 

 

I'm in the process on making rivet sets and plates for the common size of store bought rivets the old hardware store down the street stocks that I occasionally use on projects. When I get around to buying a better selection for use, I'll probably make sets and plates for those as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Snip…. Just heat the plate and drive the ball in until the rivet head is flush with the top of the plate. 

Snip..

 

The rivet snaps that I have do not take the rivet head in flush. One only needs sufficient to support the head at most 120º rather than 180º. Any more and it restricts the use to riveting a flat object and even then you have to be very precise to keep the workpiece at right angles to the axis of the rivet otherwise the edge of the  snap will bruise the workpiece surface. Apart from bruising, if the workpiece is resting on the snap rather than isolating just the rivet head the rivet can not pull the elements tight. Many of my snaps have all their corners dressed back to get at rivets and not touch the workpiece. 

 

Terminology...As far as I learned, the rivet SET has a rivet shank size hole which is put over the shank of the rivet to pull the workpiece elements together and  expose the end of the rivet, sometimes on sheet work it is also used as a bolster to shear the sheet metal using the rivet as a punch. The SNAP is the tool with the dimple that supports the head. Some of the commercial units are combination set and snap and are the bit you hold and hammer, the solo snap being held in the vice.

 

Maybe it is a US / UK difference.

 

Alan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The rivet "header" is a "set". Place the round head of the rivet in the buck and pein from the other side. You can of course have a tool "set" that bucks and sets the rivet. Sorry for the terminology lesson but it really helps sometimes. The buck supports the end of the rivet you aren't peining. The set drives the head down tight and peins (forms) it to the desired shape. Sets can be many different shapes and textures: half round head, dome head, oval, square, pyramidal, flower, etc. You can of course make your own set any shape you like.

 

As already said, simply drive a ball bearing into the appropriate piece of HOT steel to  make your "round" set or buck.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes Frosty, as I said it must be a UK /US thing that is the opposite to usage over here. The set is the "monkey tool" that sets the rivet in place and the snap is the dimple tool that forms the head on the one side and supports it on the other.

 

Alan

 

http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/5-32--rivet-snap-488.html#SID=66

 

post-9203-0-27456400-1410557461_thumb.pn

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not a buck no, I guess the nearest would be "dolly". I think in the shipyards when they were hot riveting the plates the back up was the dolly.

 

"Dolly" is also a panel-beaters backing up tool, hand held with one hand on one side of the panel while you hammer from the other side. I have one with a whole range of curves and profiles to support various shapes, lovely old thing.

 

Good reason to use "buck" as it is so close and could easily have been derived from "back" though? And you could shout "buck up" to the 'prentice as well!…. hmm I wonder where "buck-up" comes from…just did a search and found another quagmire…I always though "buck-up" was the same as "hurry up", but many of the definitions are nearer to "cheer up" hey ho.

 

We call the half round head rivets "snap heads" which I suppose is why the dimple is the "snap" whether it is on the end of a punch or on the side of a bar stake going inside a vessel / tube.

 

Although I was taught categorically the difference between set and snap, just doing a Google search for images, it does seem rather a grey area nowadays. But then some of the suppliers were also referring to them as "old world" tools! … Peasants!

 

Alan

Edited by Alan Evans
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was wondering if you were going to say dolly. I got one! <GRIN> I'd be willing to buy Buck and Back being of similar origin at least where rivets are concerned.

 

In school I learned it as a set and one evening my Grandmother got to talking about being a wing buck at Boeing during WWII. She was little, 4'11" at her tallest so she fit in the wings. Her job was to buck rivets and pull cables where few others could fit.

 

An old saying here would be: Don't (or can't) buck the tide, meaning don't go against the flow. Buck up, meaning take heart or have courage.

 

A "saw buck" as slang is a $10.00 bill but as a tool it's a bench with a clamp to hold the work steady like a shave horse.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ah well at least your gran was allowed out of the wing…there was the horrific apocryphal tale of the apprentice being plated into the gap between the inner and outer skins of Brunel's Great Eastern (Western?) which was one of the first iron ships! I don't think they found a skeleton when they restored it though so it turned out to be just another urban luddite myth!

 

Pity that.

 

Alan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...