Clayton M. Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 I'm new to blacksmithing and bladesmithing but i've got a question that i wanted the answer to. Swords and some knives have hilts on them and i was wondering is it better to forge the hilt or to make one and solder it into place later? I'm not planning on making a sword or anything big for awhile, but i'm just curious about how it's done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Good Morning, A typical newby statement. Start by thinking Swords??? Start by doing the Olympics, before you can walk??????? Start with learning the basics!! purchase "A Blacksmithing Primer" or something similar. When you are comfortable working through everything Randy is teaching, you then maybe have some knowledgable reason to consider talking Swords. It is better to do something positive and you have a hope in finishing, than starting a huge Project that will break your heart because it isn't done after 3 years!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clayton M. Posted August 28, 2014 Author Share Posted August 28, 2014 I'm not interested in making swords yet i've read enough to know that making swords is way above my head at this point in time, i was merely curious as to the making of hilts and how it's done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Caradoc Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Your best bet would be to read through the knife making section and the finish and polish sections. There is alot of usefull info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Its a perfectly honest question that deserves an honest answer. Please excuse the curmudgeoning from Mr. Swede. I assume you mean the guard. It is usually pierced and mounted from the tang end and soldered in place. Thats not to say it can't be forged as an integral piece. Just much more difficult Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clayton M. Posted August 28, 2014 Author Share Posted August 28, 2014 Thanks Dodge. It's nice to know that not everyone thinks newbies are ignorant and stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 May I commend to your attention "The Complete Bladesmith" and "The Master Bladesmith" by James Hrisoulas they go into detail on hilting swords including the making and affixing of the guard, grip and pommel. Ask your local public library about ILL for books they don't have to hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clayton M. Posted September 2, 2014 Author Share Posted September 2, 2014 Alright next time I'm in town I'll go to the library and ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Kinder Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 A sword has what I believe is called a hidden tang or through tang in knife terms. I'm talking European style swords here not Japanese Chinese or others. the tang is narrower than the blade. the guard is pierced, punched, drilled or milled to have a slot in it as close to the tang size as possible. I think there are a few historical swords that had guards soldered in place but I can't think of any specifically. generally they were held in place by compressing the tang (making the slot in the guard slightly smaller than tang) or simply held in place by compression from the wood grip and pommel assembly that were slid on the tang behind the guard. sometimes wedges were used too. I can't think of any medieval swords that had guards or hilt integral to the whole. that did happen with older broze age swords a lot though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 A sword has what I believe is called a hidden tang or through tang in knife terms. I'm talking European style swords here not Japanese Chinese or others. the tang is narrower than the blade. the guard is pierced, punched, drilled or milled to have a slot in it as close to the tang size as possible. I think there are a few historical swords that had guards soldered in place but I can't think of any specifically. generally they were held in place by compressing the tang (making the slot in the guard slightly smaller than tang) or simply held in place by compression from the wood grip and pommel assembly that were slid on the tang behind the guard. sometimes wedges were used too. I can't think of any medieval swords that had guards or hilt integral to the whole. that did happen with older broze age swords a lot though. Mameluke? Really, not sure how its guard is held on but appears it may have a full tang with pinned scales Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Kinder Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 Yeah I don't know about the Mameluke swords. Could be anything really. I was talking European a la Oakeshott typology. Different cultures did things differently and just talking about a "sword" with no more specifics than that really is not helpful. There is a huge variety in swords and any question can and usually does have half a dozen different answers depending on culture and historical period Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adair Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I know I will never be a bladesmith. I love swords, but don't have the passion for the metallurgy or finishing. At the same time, the production swords out there in my price range rarely suit my taste. My solution has been to buy low-end swords or just blades and forge my own guards and pommels. I've attached an example. A Western Martial Arts practitioner may be critical of the blades I use, but they handle well enough and they have a much more authentic look than the production swords out there. It gives me the satisfaction of crafting something I enjoy without the specialized tools and knowledge of a bladesmith. Something you might consider if you would like to dabble in swords. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clayton M. Posted December 30, 2014 Author Share Posted December 30, 2014 I like it. It may look simple but, there is beauty in simplicity. I like to make things myself. They may not look very authentic but I made them so they're special in that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Nope, no all newbies are stupid, infact most aren't. Ignorant is another mater all together. Ignorance is just a lack of knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 of course there is the post warning noobs about sword questions raising the hackles... but its more fun to find out the hard way I guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 I found the thread,"Words of Caution for Budding Swordsmiths". It has some good advice about not starting to run before one can walk or crawl. Sword making is a serious undertaking not to be attempted by the unskilled. However, in my humble opinion, I think the thread should by no means be taken as warning to not ask questions. If the innocent question about how something works or is assembled raises hackles, simply because the poster is curious, the problem isn't with the poster. Curiosity is human nature. Stronger in some than others. Here, its often helpful to have a thick skin to embrace that curiosity, however if that annoys those with the knowledge, maybe it is also they that should toughen their skin. If the question offends thee, don't answer :) But berating them for asking isn't beneficial to anyone. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Here, here master Dodge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njanvilman Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 When I was teaching, I always encouraged questions. Sometimes I had to force the students into asking. I went by the premise that "the only stupid question is the one that isn't asked". I have been smithing for a long time, and still have many questions. I do not and will never make a sword, but I found the original question interesting. Why berate instead of giving an informed answer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will52100 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 To date I've forged one sword, haven't heat treated it yet, or even taken it beyond rough grinding. Will heat treat and test and finish once I figure out how and have time. Knives on the other hand is what my shop is set up to do and I've made a bunch over the years. The guard as your talking about for a knife can be done several different ways. The two basics are hidden tang and full tang. The guard on a full tang is most often either a set of bolsters that are pined on, or a U shaped piece of metal that sits in a notch and is pinned to the blade. Guard can be soldered or just pinned, most makers at least seal with epoxy to keep moister out. For pinned bolsters after pinning I wick a little super thin super glue around the edge to create a moister barrier. On the U shaped guard I solder, haven't managed to get a tight enough fit up yet to satisfy me with epoxy. A hidden tang has a slot punched, milled, drilled and or filed or hot punched, in any event it's a hole that matches the tang of the knife, mostly just a hair undersize so it's driven onto the blade for a tight fit. The way I do it is to mill the slot slightly undersize, and on the back side mill it larger. I almost never solder a hidden tang guard on anymore. Instead I use JB weld as a sealant, the larger opening on the back of the guard gives the epoxy someplace to hang onto and makes driving and filing the guard to fit easier. Two other ways I've seen guards done is the integral, blade is forged or milled and the guard is milled or forged from the same block of steel. Another I've seen only once is guard is tig welded on where the guard is the same metal as the blade and strips of the blade steel were used as welding rod, then everything ground smooth. This was on a stainless blade BTW and should go without saying a good normalize heat and grain refinement and proper heat treat would be a must. A couple of really helpful books are Wayne Goddard's 50$ knife shop and The Wonder of Knifemaking by Wayne Goddard. Both have a ton of good practical information on heat treat, fitment, and theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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