Tumbler 'Gunk'cin shop and on tumbled parts cure

[windancer]

I have been using a tumbler modified from a HF concrete mixer for a few years now and I LOVE IT!! [i covered most of the outside with thick felt to cut down the noise [not quiet, but much better].

 

My favorite medial is punch-out drops of all sizes and shapes, mostly 1.5 inches and under.. Have tried many, many others and much prefer the steel drops. If I list all the things I have tried this post will be so long nobody will read it :)

 

When removing forge scale it generates a lot of nasty, semi-oily dust that gets all over the shop and all over the work being tumbled.

 

Years ago I tried adding a cup of Tide powdered laundry detergent [dry, I don't use liquids of any kind in the tumbler] and that produced tumbled parts that had nasty, semi-oily black Tide FIRMLY coated and stuck to everything. It was nearly impossible to get off and the only result was hours and hours of extra work to get off.

 

Does anyone have something dry they actually use themselves to capture the black forge junk?

 

I just took blades from the tumbler and they are coated with the forging residue. Many tools in the shop have a light coating of this gunk that I will have to wash off in several steps.

 

What do you use?

 

Thanks,

Dave

 

 

[HWooldridge]

I used to make a lot of production forged items and simply tumbled the parts against themselves with about a quart can of medium blasting sand thrown in then I ran the machine for about an hour. That combination worked pretty well (aside from the dust coming out of the drum) and I never had any trouble with black residue. Is your drum lined with any type of material that might be sloughing off?

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

All of our tumbling at work has soap with water circulating through it. The soap keeps the gunk in suspension. Then we rinse the parts off as we screen out the media - plastic/abrasive shapes.

You may want to see about getting the inside Line-X'ed / Rhino coated. We did some of our blasting drums, and they last a lot longer. At one place we had a 1" layer of urethane cast into them. It did two things, deadened all of the sound, and made the drums last a looooooong time.

[windancer]

Nothing inside but the paint- now long gone. I will throw in some black beauty tomorrow and see if that makes a difference. 

The drum isn't water tight so liquid is out. I wouldn't want the gunk in the yard and we live above a lake, so it would be even worse.

Maybe the BB will absorb the gunk, will give it a try.

Thanks for the ideas!

Dave

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

The rhino coating would make it water tight. Drain the liquid into a bin, and let it evaporate. Toss the solids into the garbage.

Then again, the iron is no issue, and many soaps are biodegradable now. So probably not as toxic as it may sound.

[Glenn]

We added sand and some Boiled linseed oil to the tumble media. The sand added some abrasive to the mix and absorbed a lot of the dust/dirt. Change as needed.

[windancer]

I will give the Linex folks a call tomorrow and see how bad they want to hurt me.

 

Glen, how much linseed?

 

Thanks again-

Dave

[Glenn]

As I recall it was half to a full cup in like a bucket of sand. It kept the dust down, absorbed the dirt, and put an oil finish on all the parts in the tumbler. If this is not a finish you want then do not use the boiled linseed oil. 

 

Change the sand as needed.

[Alan Evans]

When using a little cement mixer for the dryish refractory mix for my furnaces I found that a black plastic rubbish bag/bin liner fitted over the mixer mouth a treat and kept all the dust contained.

 

I did have a big old open trough rumbler for a while but could not get on with it for my application. That was rubber lined and much quieter than using the cement mixer for tumbling. I did think I could spray the outside of the mixer drum with a few coats of Car body schutz which would deaden the noise well. Especially, if like me you want to able to use the mixer for its proper role as well.

 

Alan

[JNewman]

Where is the oil coming from?  I have cleaned off the black dust from tumbling by throwing in some wood sawdust.  It did a pretty good job, the fine wood dust then  coats the work but a little air blast cleans that off. I would make sure the dust is from well dried lumber, as sappy sawdust would stick badly.

[windancer]

I added a coffee can full of Black Beauty sandblast abrasive this morning and ran it for another hour. The air and flat surfaces were dusty, but not wet or oily. The blades were WAY cleaner. This afternoon I added about a quarter cup of linseed and tumbled for another hour. No dust or oily gunk in the air or on the blades. Running for a couple more hours more- will report back tomorrow. This seems to be working :)

Thanks

Dave

[jeremy k]

Dave - you got pictures of your tumbler set up? Inside and out?

[Judson Yaggy]

A production smith that I know around here has a tumbler that uses pipe for axles and he runs a shop vac attached to one end during dry tumbling.  Point source dust removal.  I have heard of people throwing in a rag or paper towel with some linseed oil on it at the very end of the very end of the run for automatic finish application.

[windancer]

I will get some pics tomorrow and post a link to them here, along with the blades that were just done.

Dave

[windancer]

Here is the link to see pics of the tumbler, the media used and the batch of knives that were just tumbled.

http://www.windancerknives.com/Tumbler.html

Dave

[01tundra]

When I'm tumbling brass with corn/walnut media I always throw in a used dryer sheet (unscented) and that collects a majority of dust generated and keeps the media clean way longer.

 

I wonder if you threw something similar in that's on a larger scale what would happen?  Maybe a piece of landscaping fabric or something of that sort?

[windancer]

I am now using the same steel punch-outs with a coffee can full of Black Beauty sand blast abrasive and 1/4 cup of Linseed Oil.
That mix cuts WAY down on dust and the knives come out clean.
I am happy with the results and will continue to use that.
Thanks for all the help, guys!
Dave

[David Gaddis]

One good smith that I was visiting with recently says that his system is done in an "outbuilding" so that the noise is not a factor. His drum has slits cut into the sides to allow the dusting material to drop out. He states that his product comes out clean grey with only a slight amount of dust. His method uses shots made from steel mill punchings.

 

David G

 

 

carry on

[Dodge]

Windancer, This may seem like a dumb question, but do you have a cover over the tumbler while in operation?

[SpankySmith]

I've never tried it myself but I know I've read in other threads that several people mentioned using dry rice. Gonna have to actually try it one day.

[Jacques]

We also use an concrete mixer occasionally to tumble parts. We use ceramic media, with a little bit of water. But the supplier also gave us a type of soap with anti-rust properties that we add to the water. In the end I just flush a few times with fresh water and then spread the lot to dry. Very little rust. 

 

We bought two 25 kg bags media around 8 years ago and it will probable last another 8 years. The soap was also in a 25 kg bag and will last another 100 years. I also use the soap in the plasma cutter's water bin, helps a lot there as well.

[windancer]

I have made several changes recently. A cover is one of them.
I am also going back to just sharp punchouts for media along with an old rag with a little engine oil. I check about once an hour and dump the old nasty rag and add a clean one.
Been running options thru my head about just a tarp cover over a small frame to use it year round outside [i would still store it inside].
As staed earlier in this thread the mess in my new woodshop war horrible. I ran it for a short while in my mower shed and it made a mess in there, too. So outside from now on. I end up spending time I could be using to make stuff doing nasty cleanup.

When I get my treated and tempered blades out of the tunbler I want to go straight to handles. I like the look of the rough tubled / stone washed finish and it eliminates 99% of the handwork. I can't compete with makers who turn out near-perfect knives every time. So all I can hope to do is pay the bills with the less expensive knives and do a few of the higher end knives now and then.

I have modified my HF cement mixer half a dozen times over the last year; bigger motor, tight cover, made a mixing paddle from angle iron, cut up the motor cover and remade it so it is easier to get out of the way to adjust/replace the belt. I also made a few more supports that I welded in place or bolted on all the flexing made me a little nervous about wear and tear.

Dodge, I carried crap around for about a day and tehn discovered that a standard 5 gallon bucket lid fits snug over the tumbler. I added 4 carriage bolts about half way down the mixer. Now I can just slap the cover into place and criss-cross from the bolts with a bungee cord and it hold the cover exactly in place. The first time I opened the cover after an hour it looked like there was smoke billowing out- had forgotten to add the oily rag, and it tokk a couple full minutes for the dust to blow away :)

When I get the next catch out of the tumbler I will make a YouTube video of the way my tumbler ended up after all the changes, the tumbler actually running with knives inside and then the way the knives look when they are done to my satisfaction.

You guys will learn not to ask me questions! I hate short answers to detailed questions and Glenn has made this site and this info exchange possible- so I try to give as much info as I would like :)

Dave