DIY Anvil "Upgrades"?

[Leeknivek]

Ok. Hay Buds (sorry).

some of you may remember I purchased a block of steel at the scrap yard a number of months ago. After taking your advice to use it as is, its been working greatly. But it has its limitations - I find myself wanting a horn and hardie hole quite often while I'm working, and since I cannot for the life of me find a reasonably priced, closely located London pattern anvil, I've been doing some reading on iForge's DIY anvil pages.

I don't think I'm proposing anything over-engineered or beyond practicality to do. I wouldn't be here if I did with all of the (rightfully) almost belligerent replies to amateurs who ask silly questions.

anyways, what I have is an 85lb block of mild steel. It measures about 14" tall, with a face of 4-5" x 7", approximately. I've never actually measured it. One of the 7" sides is rounded - hence the 4-5" dimension. Its about 5" at its widest point.

I have this set in a box made of dim. lumber filled with tamped clay/sand - altogether we're talking 1300+ pounds, this thing is unmovable. I literally used a backhoe to fill it.

So, it works fairly well. But after doing some research on the 'pieced anvils' page that is on iforgeiron, I came up with a plan. I have some rr rail, and I could use that to make a horn. Cut with torch to rough dimension, then either grind or forge to finished shape. Depends on which is easier (that's why I'm here!)

RR rail is an awkward shape, but I've been thinking outside of the box. (Yes, the box filled with the backhoe) and decided if I cut off the flange, part of the web could be used as a gusset to strengthen the horn if it's welded onto the (4") side.

in addition, I read the "3 hardie holes" page and its best-selling sequel, "3 more hardie holes". If I could find a piece of mild steel with a 4" width, I could cut a hardie hole into it, make it almost trapezoidal (imagine a square horn of German anvil styling, but cut in half lengthwise). This way I have a similar/presumably stronger gusset as/than the horn.

both of these new pieces would be heavily chamfered and then welded/built up with 7018 rod. From my varying research, this seems sufficient (I also have a 50lb unopened can of it that I inherited, so...)

what is the consensus? Worth doing, or no? I'll go from 85lbs, to 100+, which is kind of nice, I'll have a little bit bigger of a face, a hardie hole, and a horn.

I have some sketches drawn up, but I'll have to put them up tomorrow. Included is an idea of adding a stepped base - for later on, way after I do this bit listed here - but looks attractive and seems functional.

thank you.

Kevin

[Everything Mac]

We need pictures. :)

All the best
Andy

[arftist]

Totally worth doing.

1. You can then join the very exclusive club of anvil makers.

2. Your Fab, forging, grinding and welding skills take a leap. 

3. You anvil gains a horn and a hardy hole. 

 

As to your question, the answer depends on your skill set as well as your tool set. With the right tools forging then grinding to finish is the fastest. Either way, there is nothing wrong with grinding the end product to a suitable level of smoothness. 

 

My only admonishment is that you should join your parts with 100% penetration; completely bevel, leave zero void or unwelded parts. I have a feeling you just may take this anvil "all the way" and add a thick chunk of air hardening tool steel to the top someday. If that becomes the case, you will dearly wish you had welded with 100% pen. 

[ThomasPowers]

Why not make a stake anvil to go with your other anvil.  Here is one I made using a RR spike driving sledge hammer head---the shaft I forge at a SWABA meeting at a really big shop indeed!

[PaulKrzysz]

You can see what I did in the video.

 

 

It is not hard to do, it just take a lot of time.

[Charles R. Stevens]

If you can't copy Tommmas' and you always forge a point on a relativity large section and bend the bar. Say a piece of 2" square, a foot long, bend 90 and forge to a relatively square corner. Then point and draw each end, say a foot or so. One end square the other round. This will approximate a bickern that any Iron Age smith would recognize and be proud of. By cutting of the web and just using the top of the rail you cab do much the same thing

[petere76]

In regard your plan to hard face with 7018, do some reading on hard face materials. There is a lot of product out there for weld application. 7018 is common, sometimes refered to as everybody's because of it's ease of application. However, there are some excellent rods for hard facing buckets on excavator and backhoe components. They are pricey but they have outstanding wear and impact characteristics, the stuff is bulletproof.

Peter

[jeremy k]

Do not use a "hard facing" rod - use an "ANTI-CRUSHING" rod. You want a rod that is a high impact vs. wear resistant.

[DSW]

Thomas's stake was going to be my suggestion. As far as a hardie, I'd build a hardie block out of some heavy plate and some box tube. I plan on making one in the next few weeks since I lack a good sized swage block to upset material to make bottom tools for my anvil. I'll just cut and file a 1" square hole in some 1" plate I have and weld it to some 4" sq 1/4" wall tub with a few ears welded to it so I can easily secure it to a spare stump. I'm not sure right now if I'll need to add some extra support under the 1" plate or not. I'm hoping I can get in touch with a buddy and see if he has any small drops of heavier plate I can use.

 

I'll post up picts when I get started. I'll probably wait until mid September when school starts, so I can use the big plasma at the tech school to burn out the majority of the material and save myself some work.

[Leeknivek]

Mac, I will post pictures in a little while once I can use the computer.

artist, thanks for the encouragement. My skills are minimal but I'm always practicing. I've never welded stick but I've done plenty of mig. Like I said, I inherited the rod so I can do plenty of practice with no loss. The stick welder I have is a big, yellow, washing machine sized monolithic beast. "Chemetron AC 300W" or something. Can't remember exactly, but if I take my time welding, chipping, and cleaning, I'll be ok.

I also have an oxyacetylene torch and various grinders. I plan on 100% penetration on the heel and horn, I will just have to figure out how to best bevel the rr piece to get 100%.

I *was* thinking about a face plate - after posting this I browsed around here and saw someone mentioned the flange of a rr rail upside down, so there is already a deep chamfer to build up and get 100% penetration. Heat treating it is still something but I'll only be 120lbs at most instead of 400 or something.

Thomas,I did actually want to make a bick originally but decided this would be more convenient. If I made a bick, I would have to make a base for it and I still wouldn't have a hardie. I like how yours came out, though, so eventually I may do something like that too.

Paul, I watched both of your anvil making videos for ideas. That's basically what I plan to do, but with a stepped base like your bigger one. That will have to wait until I find the right stuff at the yard, though. Good job, by the way, I was very impressed.

Charles - I could, but I would prefer to have it as part of my anvil.

Peter, I'm not hard facing with 7018, only welding together anvil 'pieces'. So, I have a big block in the center - makes up most of the face, the waist, the base, its all one solid piece. I chamfer and weld on a horn and heel to this central piece, getting full penetration.

I'm content with a mild steel face, too, for now
I haven't had any issues with it.

[ThomasPowers]

Well that stake anvil was my "Tour de Farce" one of my students took about 75 pictures of me working down the 2.5" sq stock into the shaft. Luckily the fellow whose shop we were using had a 200# Chambersburg as well as the 100# LG.

But the idea can be done with smaller stuff. Like take two differing bull pens and weld them to a solid chunk to get a nice sized bick.

I still need to weld over the top of the hammer eye to make a forging pad; I will have to wait on a visit to another friend who's the expert arc welder for that. The Stake anvil goes with a 25# medieval style anvil---and both are going camping with me next week!

[Leeknivek]

Here's the plan, I did some basic sketches from all sides except bottom.

 

 

 

this is all built around the 4-5"x7"x14" block of steel I have, pictured in the center of every sketch. The top left is a top view of the face. The curved portion, on the 'bottom' of the face, will be ground off into a slope, like a church window anvil.

 

 

the next picture, top right, is a cross section showing my plans to later add a stepped base with upsetting block. The four circles in the corners are mounting holes.

 

The next picture, middle-left, is a side view of the far-side, ie, the side one would not normally face. This shows the horn to the right and the hardie block to the left. It also illustrates the base.

 

 

after that, middle-right photo, shows the side view from the opposite side - the one you face. Same as previous, basically, but shows the upsetting block. Also does not have the sloped edge as the previous does.

 

second to last photo, bottom-left, shows the heel side of the anvil-to-be. Shows that the hardie has a full hole and also shows the sloped part.

 

 

last sketch, bottom-right, is the horn side. Shows cross section of horn and how I plan to use the web for extra support. As shown in the middle pictures, the web does not extend the full length of the horn.

 

what do you guys think? I think it looks pretty handsome!

[John McPherson]

Just get a photobucket error.

[Leeknivek]

Fixed, sorry.

[arftist]

Excellent! I too visualized stepped feet. Great minds think alike. 

I drive through eastern Conn every week. When you get some parts together send me a PM and I will stop by and get you started with the 7018. 

 

Making your own tools is the blacksmith's way, learn by doing. 

[Leeknivek]

Alright. I'm going down tomorrow to start on the horn, make measurements, take inventory on my scrap, and figure out what I need to find next week to finish. (my blacksmithing day is Wednesday)

 

in the meantime, I found a nifty online cadd program, called "tinkercad", and made a 3d model of what I plan on doing, for my own and your reference and clarity:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I tried to get all the useful angles. Here's the piece in question that I have right now, to become the main body/waist:

 

 

 

[Pineknot Forge]

I like the idea ,, Since no one but, you , will use your anvil you make it the way you want it .. Experience is the best teacher.

 

That being said ,, I do agree with Jeremy K ,, impact resisant welding rods is better (IMO) than hard surfacing rods ,, we use hard surfacing rods on things like Lawn mower blades, peanut plow points , Grader Blades , but, we use impact resisant rods on Hammer mills for the mines ,teeth on Track hoe buckets for rock breaking and digging,etc. Hard Surfacing is good for wear ( two things rubbing together ;Dirt and steel , Grass and steel,etc.)

 

( Please pardon my spelling I am a layman not an english teacher)

[Frosty]

That's going to make you a fine anvil. Be careful to let the RR steel cool slowly or it'll be brittle. I've had more trouble with rail than most everything else, high carbon steel wise. Just let it cool slowly and it should be fine.

 

100% pen isn't really necessary but won't hurt at all.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Randy Bill]

Thank you Thomas Powers for the stake anvil idea.Removing a handle remnant can be a pain. I knew a fellow who found it easiest to remove them from axe heads by putting them in a bonfire and retrieving them the next morning from the cooled-off ashes. Really. That was almost fifty years ago and I do it differently now.

[LastRonin]

If you're going to cut the rail off the track section... why not flip over the base, cut your hardy hole(s) in it and weld it to the other end of your block of steel, That would be stronger than a welded piece of mild even with the gusset you spoke of adding... the remaining web from where you cut the railtop off for the horn would be the tail's gusset.

[arftist]

011.JPG

Thank you Thomas Powers for the stake anvil idea.Removing a handle remnant can be a pain. I knew a fellow who found it easiest to remove them from axe heads by putting them in a bonfire and retrieving them the next morning from the cooled-off ashes. Really. That was almost fifty years ago and I do it differently now.

When removing a handle saw off the remnant and push the remains out by placing the head upside down over the jaws of an open vise and drive out using a drift or a piece of rod of the correct diameter. It is only difficult when done from the top, rather than the bottom, since the wedges become tighter the harder one drives it the wrong way. Putting most tools into a fire softens them to their very softest state and is only a good idea if you are capable of hardening and tempering them again. 

[DSW]

If that doesn't work, drill out the majority of the material and fold the rest into the hole you made in the center with a punch of chisel. This works on fiberglass handles and ones that are glued in.

[Randy Bill]

Most newer handled tools (and the spike mauls in my image) have double tapers in the eye so the handle is locked in position when correctly hafted. DSW's method is usually the quickest; careful that the bit doesn't "grab" when the wedges are encountered. Use a straight-sided punch to drive out the remnant.

[Leeknivek]

If you're going to cut the rail off the track section... why not flip over the base, cut your hardy hole(s) in it and weld it to the other end of your block of steel, That would be stronger than a welded piece of mild even with the gusset you spoke of adding... the remaining web from where you cut the railtop off for the horn would be the tail's gusset.

Ronin, the piece that I am adding with the hardie hole is a solid block that's 3x3x3 ... It will have two seams of built up 7018 that are 1"w x 3"h, the other dimension being tapered so that as much original material remains while giving me a hole to build up the weld.

I did think of that though, but the hardie hole would have to be off center, otherwise it would go into the web (almost defeating the purpose)

------------------

my work week is almost over. I will start fabrication on Wednesday (my day off) and post pictures. If everything goes right, it should only take that one day (every time I say that, I get put way behind schedule from something stupid!!)

[LastRonin]

Leeknivek

Posted 24 August 2014 - 11:09 PM

LastRonin, on 23 Aug 2014 - 11:27 PM, said:

Ronin, the piece that I am adding with the hardie hole is a solid block that's 3x3x3 ... It will have two seams of built up 7018 that are 1"w x 3"h, the other dimension being tapered so that as much original material remains while giving me a hole to build up the weld.

I did think of that though, but the hardie hole would have to be off center, otherwise it would go into the web (almost defeating the purpose)

------------------

my work week is almost over. I will start fabrication on Wednesday (my day off) and post pictures. If everything goes right, it should only take that one day (every time I say that, I get put way behind schedule from something stupid!!)

 

 

Yeah. Hardy hole on one side of the web and pritchel on the other.