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Guillotine tool, what would you do different?


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I've seen several different variations of the guillotine tools, played with a few, and now finally I'm going to make my own.
I do have a nice machine shop that I can use for making this, so I want to build it to last a lifetime and be happy with it.

Some I've seen have the fully captured upper and lower dies, while others have a groove on each side of the frame the die rides in and the front is open. I suppose with the open design you have more headroom if need on the upper die...

Some are the C-frame design that allows you to work from the sides which I think is a nice feature.

So I'm wondering for those that have made their own or bought one, what don't you like about yours that you would do differently if you could have? Or what do you like about it?

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Hi!

 

Mine is at a demonstration for the next 5 days so i have just got a drawing of mine:

 

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Front plates are 5mm, The swages are 60mm x 15mm and the Blocks keeping them in position are 30x15mm. The whole baby is fixed on a 15mm thick sheet with different holes for punching ( multi Purpose item ;) )

 

It is my third guillotine and i can adjust the play of the swages with a contered screw.

 

Works quite well for smaller material to 40x15mm. I like the open side, so i can make swages like long V shape with fitting top to get good angles for tongs or else)

Had some hours on its shoulders and still works.

Attaching 30mm round stock 8mm thick to the top swage is really necessary otherwise the swage shrooms alot and wont work that long.

 

 

 

Only thing i will change for the next one is: Riveting the whole Guillotine that it looks proper.

I love classic joint solutions.

And the ground plate schould be an angle so you can fix it to the anvil with a clamp.

I had one with a square stock to fit in my hardie, but it still jumps with every hit i do.

 

 

If you want i can send you the evolution of my 3 tools ( but only next week)

 

Greetings,

 

Hannes

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I made mine with a "C" frame deep enough to clear about 3". The top and bottom die holders are at a 45* angle to the frame so I can pass long stock through crossways or lengthways. EG I can cut or shoulder a 20' bar in the center or fuller a full 20' length. The only time the frame interferes with the work is if you're working more than 3" off line. I've never worked anything in it at a 45* angle though so its never gotten in the way. The bottom die just drops in and the top die slides in a guide plate. I can loosen the top guide or remove it if I want to use a really odd top die, say the 3/4"r fuller.

 

I'd make a couple changes though. I put the shank directly under the bottom die. Were I to make another I'd place the shank so the bottom die were over the waist of the anvil and parallel on the edge. This would not only put the strikes over the sweet spot and not risk striking over the hardy hole but it would give much more freedom to work at an angle out of horizontal.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

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Yes I've had hardy-mounted guillotines bounce around each hit.... I though about putting a long hardy on the bottom and a shim slot going through.
Once installed on the anvil, you could put an angled shim in the slot through the hardy shank under the heel and tap it tight. Anyone do this?

I also thought about coming up with better mounting of the tool so taht it is over the center of the anvil rather than out on the heel.....

Frosty that sounds like quite substantial unit. Got pics?

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Greetings Frogman..

 

OK I will show you the finest of many I own...  You of many anvils I would suggest the removable hardie spike so it would fit many...  I have also enclosed picts of some of the limit dies that I made for forming with size control..  The use is endless ... Note the frontal offset which is also very useful.  This should keep your machines busy for a while..  If I can help let me know...  Again thanx for the Acme heads up and yes it is sitting on a Derby and a Trenton.. I wish you well..

 

Forge on and make beautiful things

Jim

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I'd say we were on the same vibration Frog but I might be taken as a hippy :D My wife says she between the hippy and punk  so she's a Pippy! I just got my G2 from Mike, I wanted to demonstrate the difference between hand hammering and power hammering. Made a couple changes to the set up, hope it doesn't void my warranty...

 

I really enjoy seeing pics of your shop JIm, keep posting.

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Hannes that is an interesting approach I had not seen before, mounting the dies in that orientation compared to the frame. Thanks for posting it! More to think about....

Jim that is quite a piece, what a monster! Beautifully made....
What size are the dies?

MM, I've recently used that very tool. For heavy beating I think the dies are a bit thin, I'd like to make mine thicker. I see your tops are deforming as well.... I was thinking .75" X 2.5" and welding a 'beater button' of 1" 4140 hex stock on top for easy dressing and replacement.

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post-975-0-66091900-1407897712_thumb.jpg

 

I took this pic while I was putting it together and it isn't much different in the "as builts". It took me a long time to find where I put the pics, they aren't where I put them since buying the new computer, it had Windows 8 as the default OS and my computer guy swapped the files but didn't or couldn't make sense of my system so he just swapped the stuff.

 

Anyhow, I think this shows it pretty well. I know I have better pics if I only knew where they are. <sigh> The dies in this pic are the fullering dies, not the cut off or butcher dies, I use the cutoffs and butchers the most.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

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Thanks for the picture Frosty, another interesting approach....
What are the die sizes in that one?

DillonSculpture, Sorry in the above post for some reason I refered to you as MonsterMetal or MM! My mistake...
I've always meant to get around to making one of these, but after tinkering with your skull idea I realized that this tool would make my life much easier.
So you are sort of responsible for motivating me to get this done. :)

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So any nifty tricks for keeping the dies open; but not draining force when hammering on them?

My favorite swing arm fuller has a die spring mounted on the pivot bolt and the arm extends a bit past the pivot so I can tap it a bit it opens and stays open but doesn't impede hammering. It also keeps the arms inline without letting them bed if mis-struck

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I've seen the one Nick did several years ago with a spring and post on the upper die to keep them open:
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But I'm not sure I want to keep them open, I don't mind the upper die resting on the workpiece so that I know exactly where the upper die is going to impact and do its work. With sharper edge tooling I'm more accurate in placement.

DillonSculpture, have you ever found a need to use more headroom than the opening in your purchased tool?
I'm debating between doing a similar groove that holds the upper and lower dies (like yours) vs having them fully contained front and back (like Jim's).

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I would have welded the die holders together with a paper spacer to allow for shrinking. The die holders took a lot of filing to make them fit the .5'' x 1.5'' dies.

 

Or I would just hold the die holder together by drilling and bolting them with the appropriately sized spacer.

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I won't hold it against you  B) Not sure if you noticed in my earlier post the wedge method of mounting and the other pic is of a bottom table die to strike from the top only. The reasoning  for the top strike was to forge some smallish skulls. I felt it to be a waste of material to dedicate for such a small die like this eye tool. So my idea (unrealized as of yet) is to graft in a piece of 1" dom with a set screw to accept 1/2" rod for small tooling. You could easily weld on or tap on a 1/2" shank to about anything for a top tool.

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PK, that is the approach that Frosty had as well. Very unique.
What size are your dies?

 

 

The tool was inspired by one other one I saw on the internet.

The dies are 1/2'' x 1.5''.
I do not find this size limiting to work with, but if I were to make another one I would go with 1/2 x 2'' because finding alloy steel in this size would be easier. My dies right now are mild steel.

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 20140516_1132.jpg20140516_1102.jpg20140516_1106.jpg20140516_1129.jpg

I made mine too high.  I am using it for small stock, not 4" bar stock!!!  I got a little carried away.  And a heavier base is needed for sure.  I can say that I see the important's in welding on a sacrificial piece to the top fuller. I used a stick welder to put it together so It's not as pretty as others but it should do the trick.  All 1/4" mild sheet. good luck. 

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Here is my attempt at making one , have not really used much, one of those things you see and think I can do that and then find you didn't really need it anyway , a couple of different dies made and it works ok ,I just don't use it. 

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I have been thinking of all the different ways I could use one, and different dies to make specific pieces. But I think about like its a miniature power hammer, with specialized dies. I also like designs and processes with big changes in cross section, and isolating bosses, and other tricks where a tool like this can be very handy

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 20140516_1129.jpg

I made mine too high.  I am using it for small stock, not 4" bar stock!!!  I got a little carried away.  And a heavier base is needed for sure.  I can say that I see the important's in welding on a sacrificial piece to the top fuller. I used a stick welder to put it together so It's not as pretty as others but it should do the trick.  All 1/4" mild sheet. good luck. 

I agree a heavier base would have been an improvement but I really like how you set your "backbone" at an angle to the dies. Accommodates long stock better :)

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