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I Forge Iron

Confused about iron and steel


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Hello everyone,

 

When I took my beginning blacksmithing course I remembered it saying we made the S hooks from iron. However, when I go online to pretty much all the blacksmithing sites I can barely find anything about buying iron stock, all I see is steel. I have also never seen iron stock in hardware stores, only steel. Could someone help explain to me if I am missing something? Also, on Anvilfire, there is a page on buying materials and the man says "For decorative ironwork the less expensive steel is used when available but size is often more important than the cost difference." So, is iron the same thing or a different type of steel? Are they used interchangeably? I do remember when I made the S hook it was from 1/2" square rod of something. Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

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Let's put it this way, there has been a change in what's considered steel.

In the old days, Iron would not harden and steel would. Sadly for beginners, some people still use this in their vocabulary.

 

Most of what you can buy today is steel, whether it will harden -like tool steel, or not -like mild steel.
Read up on "Bessemer Steel", which I believe took over the market ca. 1870.

For something to be called Iron today, it will have to be chemically pure, and thus so soft it resembles lead. This and the price makes it uninteresting for most of our work.

You can however get some wrought iron. This is often so low in carbon it kind of deserves it's iron name.

The steels most smiths use today as a wrought iron substitute is 1018, 1020 and A36.

 

For bloomery and hearth finery processes it is still customary to divide into iron and steel based on whether it will harden.

Then there's cast iron, which "ironically" contains less iron than it's non alloyed contemporary irons and steels..

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Short answer: you probably had A36 lower end carbon steel, today's answer to wrought iron for most things, the discount hamburger of the metal supermarkets. It's sole saving grace is that is usually better quality than the lowest grade of rebar.

 

I was born under a flag with 48 stars (Alaska & Hawaii were still territories) and they have not made any new wrought iron in my lifetime. So all that we have available is recycled from scrap and demolition. There are some re-sellers and re-rollers to smaller dimensions, but it is all pricey and special order.

 

For a short time, there was a company selling pure iron, no carbon content to speak of. Those that tried it said it forged like butter. Again, all pricey and special order.

 

So, what we are left with is: steel. High carbon, medium carbon, low carbon, high alloy and low alloy, in waaaaay more flavors than Baskin-Robbins. In an alphabet soup of nomenclature. I could talk your ear off on the subject, but am not about to type that much. Read the forums, then get back with us.

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Not to mention "slang" usages:  iron could refer to cast iron, mild steel, A36 or wrought iron---just like a "tin roof" most likely involves no tin at all!

 

Bessemer/Kelly process was patented in the 1850's; but as late as the late 1880's and early 1890's   the smithing journals were full of people discussing how to work the "new" material.  

 

The Great Depression was a major factor in killing off real wrought iron though it was still used for speciality tasks.  Probably the last major maker went out of Business in the UK in the 1970's IIRC and donated their factory to the Blist Hill Museum where they re-work Wrought Iron scrap and sell it under the Real Wrought Iron Co, LTD.

 

Steel went under a chemical spec like 1018, 1020 until fairly recently when re-melt steel started showing up under a properties spec: e.g. A-36 has a yield strength of at least 36000 psi

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Well, word definitions are of course very important to keep accurate, the OP being a prime example. However, 1018 is still 99.82% iron (not counting impurities). 

Even high carbon steel capable of making very strong or hard tools like 1095 is still 99.05% iron. So, steel is for the most part, iron, and is really an iron alloy. 

 

Steel is just one of a great many alloys of iron (and steel itself has an almost unending list of alloys.)

 

Some of the other iron alloys (besides steel) are cast iron,(iron with between 2 and 4% carbon), wrought iron (iron and silica)

Stainless steel (iron, chrome and nickel) surgical stainless steel (iron, chrome nickel and molybdenum) High speed steel( iron, carbon, tungsten and or molybdenom or other elements such as cobalt) and weathering steel or cor-ten ( (silicon, manganese, chromium, copper, vanadium, nickel). 

 

This is far from a complete list, but some of the more common alloys of iron which one would be likely to encounter in our particular field. 

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Welcome aboard Ser, glad to have you. If you put your general location in the header you might be surprised how many of the IFI gang live within visiting distance. There's nothing like working with an experienced smith to shorten the learning curve.

 

I think your question has been covered. Wrought iron the material is available depending to two major factors, where you are and how much you want to spend. Some places, here for example don't have much wrought available for scrounging so we get to spend bunches if we really want to use it. Some places it's laying pretty much all over the place if you know where to look.

 

Another meaning of "Wrought Iron" is the noun. Steel that's been worked to look like it was made in olden days, think shelves of "Pier One," etc.

 

Most "iron" is mild steel or A36. Tool or High carbon steel is more expensive, takes more skill to work successfully so most folk only use it where it's properties are needed, say knives, flint strikers, hot/cold chisels, etc.

 

Sure most of us know the answer without thinking about it, the length of the replies is a sign of exactly that. Most of us don't think about what steel/iron is, we just pick what the job calls for and go to work. Good questions on the other hand make us think about just WHY the heck we do IT this way, call IT that, etc.

 

So, thanks for the question Ser, you got lots of guy's juices flowing. Making me think about the WHY/WHAT of things is one of the main reasons I love teaching the craft.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

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Guest Letholdus
Posted · Hidden by Steve Sells, August 5, 2014 - resolved
Hidden by Steve Sells, August 5, 2014 - resolved

IN answer to the question you asked, Iron is an element,  Steel is a combnation of the elements Iron and Carbon.

 

In answer to the question you did not ask at your opening, but I am sure you will want to know .... your acccount was banned because you had more than one log in here and that is a violation of the ToS you agreed to follow to be a member here. have a nice day Letholdus, Ser Letholdus, and Ser Menalak

And why did I have more than one log on? Because for some reason my old account Ser Menalak, the original, was turned into a guest account with no notification or explanation why. So I used the same email for another account. I'm not sure why the first account was made into a guest account and henceforth would not allow me to log in.

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Posted · Hidden by Steve Sells, August 5, 2014 - resolved
Hidden by Steve Sells, August 5, 2014 - resolved

We will get it sorted out:  The first was not activated because we had not gotten a confirming Email from that address.  I will get them sorted in a few minutes./

 

First please let me know which of the 3 names you  want to keep here, I will remove the others after your choosen is working again.

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Guest Letholdus
Posted · Hidden by Steve Sells, August 5, 2014 - resolved
Hidden by Steve Sells, August 5, 2014 - resolved

We will get it sorted out:  The first was not activated because we had not gotten a confirming Email from that address.  I will get them sorted in a few minutes./

 

First please let me know which of the 3 names you  want to keep here, i will remove the others after your choosen is working again.

Thank you for your understanding. I will keep the one that posted this forum thread, Ser Menalak. You may delete all the rest.

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Posted · Hidden by Steve Sells, August 5, 2014 - resolved
Hidden by Steve Sells, August 5, 2014 - resolved

its working. after I see you can post as the origonal I will remove the Letholdus account also.

 

Hi I should be posting from Ser Menalak now. I believe everything is in order, you can delete Letholdus. Thanks for getting things up and running and sorry for the inconvenience caused.

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