Scrambler82 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Came across this tool set on eBay. Ebay link removed Thinking they may not be any good but was wondering what you guys have to say. They state made from "ductile iron" but isn't that just basic cast iron. Do they require hardening ? Will they stand up to light duty use . My anvil has a 3/4" Hardie hole, I was thinking of getting a set in 7/8" and grinding the shank down to fit. Thks for reading and any comments/infomation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrambler82 Posted July 3, 2014 Author Share Posted July 3, 2014 Another thought... Is the Hardie Hole suppose to be straight thru, I would think so. What if it isn't ? Thks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaughnT Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 If your hardy doesn't go all the way through, something's blocking it or you got a factory defect of some kind. Drill it out. I've seen those tools on ebay, but don't know about their quality. I might buy one of them just to see, but...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 The bottom tools aren't anything special, the anvil's horn is much better than a set of fullers. The bending fork is easy peasy to make, the swage is likewise easy to make, well almost as easy as a bending fork. The bone shaped bottom die thingy might be interesting to mess with and wouldn't be too hard to make but I wouldn't buy it unless it was really cheap. When you ask about the Hardy hole being straight through I'm not clear about your meaning. Doesn't the hardy hole on your anvil go all the way through the heal? Or isn't the hole straight, is it crooked, tapered, out of square, or? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Came across this tool set on eBay.Ebay link removed Thinking they may not be any good but was wondering what you guys have to say. They state made from "ductile iron" but isn't that just basic cast iron. Do they require hardening ? Will they stand up to light duty use . My anvil has a 3/4" Hardie hole, I was thinking of getting a set in 7/8" and grinding the shank down to fit. Thks for reading and any comments/infomation. Ductile iron is not even close to basic cast iron. Physically is behaves more like steel. Instead of having flakes of graphite (which cause brittleness cast iron is known for) the graphite (carbon) in ductile iron is in ball or nodular form. The round form prevents the development of stress risers (the start of cracks). Some ductile iron also has copper or tin added for additional strength. The most common ductile iron object used by blacksmiths are the large Wilton vises. They do not required hardening if you are going to work hot (soft) steel. They do require finishing, as they as quite rough. I imagine the effort to polish them would easily exceed the time to fabricate them. They will stand up to heavy duty use. It is unlikely you could break them, since they are "ductile" (able to undergo change of form). When I make a hardy tool I start with a solid square bar one size larger than the hardy hole. I forge it to fit as close as I can or until I am bored. I then heat it quite hot and carefully drive it into the hardy hole, for a tight fit. I hit it pretty hard but carefully because the heel of an anvil can be broken off by a wedging effect at the hardy hole. This is a pretty safe procedure, except that the mass of cold metal in the anvil starts robbing the heat from the shank as soon as contact is established, so a couple good solid hits and it is done. A hardy shank should always be made long enough to protrude through the anvil, so as to be readily tapped out with a hammer if it is stuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 Another thought... Is the Hardie Hole suppose to be straight thru, I would think so. What if it isn't ? Thks Straight through, yes, but ideally tapered as well. This allows then anvil to "grip" hardy tools tightly. A large, sharp square file with a handle will resolve any hardy hole issues you may have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 IDEALLY NOT TAPERED! Stake holders are tapered, hardy holes have parallel sides as the forge of working on the tooling is supposed to be transferred to the face of the anvl not in wedging a tool in one of the weakest points of a traditionally made anvil! If you do the sizing with the stem almost at welding heat then the shrinkage as it cools is often just right for a close but not wedging fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I have one of the bending forks that I acquired some time ago, and it has held up well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrambler82 Posted July 3, 2014 Author Share Posted July 3, 2014 Looking in the Hardie Hole on my anvil, it appears to be at a slight angle. The side seem to be straight. I will get out the measuring tools and see what I come up with. Does a Hardie tool have a. Long shank to it ? How long should it be ? Thanks for all of the info guys, appreciated. What is the portion of the tool called that fits in the Hardie hole ? I would call it the shank but not sure of the terminology. Either way... how long should the part going in the Hardie hole be ? Thanks for all of the information. I have learned something today, so it is a good day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 IDEALLY NOT TAPERED! Stake holders are tapered, hardy holes have parallel sides as the forge of working on the tooling is supposed to be transferred to the face of the anvl not in wedging a tool in one of the weakest points of a traditionally made anvil! If you do the sizing with the stem almost at welding heat then the shrinkage as it cools is often just right for a close but not wedging fit. My Hay Budden is tapered. It cut a bunch of 1/2" by 3" into 3"x3" squares, then punched a 1" square hole in the center of them with an ironworker. after I hot fit my shanks, I weld the plate onto it, still in the hardy hole. This of course transfers all the force to the face and prevents wedging, while still gripping firmly. I really don't like loose tools. I should have been more thorough in my explanation. Thanks for pointing that out TP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Looking in the Hardie Hole on my anvil, it appears to be at a slight angle. The side seem to be straight. I will get out the measuring tools and see what I come up with. Does a Hardie tool have a. Long shank to it ? How long should it be ? Thanks for all of the info guys, appreciated. What is the portion of the tool called that fits in the Hardie hole ? I would call it the shank but not sure of the terminology. Either way... how long should the part going in the Hardie hole be ? Thanks for all of the information. I have learned something today, so it is a good day. A hardy tool's shank should be made long enough that it can be tapped out with a hammer from under the heel if it ever gets stuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 All the good cast blacksmith tools are made from Ductile Iron. Ductile Iron can be forged even when it is cold, it won't break. I have many swage tools, cone mandrels, swage blocks that are made with Ductile Iron. I have never had a break. If something bends just hammer it back straight, it won't break like cast iron. Take a grinder to the surface and make them look like you would like, Then use them with a smile on your face. Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrambler82 Posted July 4, 2014 Author Share Posted July 4, 2014 All the good cast blacksmith tools are made from Ductile Iron. Ductile Iron can be forged even when it is cold, it won't break. I have many swage tools, cone mandrels, swage blocks that are made with Ductile Iron. I have never had a break. If something bends just hammer it back straight, it won't break like cast iron. Take a grinder to the surface and make them look like you would like, Then use them with a smile on your face. Neil Can 7/8" shanks be reworked to fit a 3/4" hole ? Drawing it out to fit or grinding to fit, which would be the better way ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 "Drawing it out to fit or grinding to fit, which would be the better way ? " YES! depending on your equipment, skills, likes and dislikes, time available, etc I bought an anvil with 1.5" hardy holes; rather than work down 2" or more steel by hand I've been purchasing old abused top tools, cutting off the mushroomed part and then forging the rest of the top section into 1.5" sq hardy stems. It really helps that I have a whomping big screw press so when I get "close" I can take it to the screwpress and bump into flat parallel sides---works a treat! I have also made a set of nesting sq tubing to convert the hardy hole down to 1" so I can use my "regular" tools in it to. As I have a number of anvils and the hardy holes often differ slightly I like my stems to fit nicely and then inset the rest of the shaft so if a student uses the wrong tool for that anvil I can tap it out from the bottom with no chance of riveting it in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Geist Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Can 7/8" shanks be reworked to fit a 3/4" hole ? Drawing it out to fit or grinding to fit, which would be the better way ? Yes, you can make them fit (I'd opt for grinding in order not to mess up the temper) if you want to or........... Whatever doesn't fit in your anvil will most assuredly fit in your vise. That wouldn't require any reworking at all :) Decision is yours B) George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrambler82 Posted July 6, 2014 Author Share Posted July 6, 2014 Thks for the comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 7, 2014 Share Posted July 7, 2014 Of course ductile iron tools are not tempered Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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