Problem - numpty with no skill & how to attach drip trays

[bogmonster]

Hi,

 

Built a forge about a year ago and then ill health and general life got in the way so didn't do anything with it. Anyway, having another bash so to speak but I am starting from a very low experience level so please be gentle.

 

Here is one of my first items:

 

 

 

I actually started this ages ago and found it rusting in the back of the garage. Originally I planned wood turned candle holders (I am a wood turner) but decided metal would be better. The arms were already assembled so I needed to work out how to attach the cups. Had the arms not been assembled I would have tapered arms and punched the dishes but this did not seem like an option at this stage. I had an arc welder and brazing kit but don't really know how to use either. I bought some collars as I thought the dishes looked odd just on top the arms. I decided to braze and a lot of clean up was required. Overall I am not too unhappy with the look but it is 'rustic' - or messy to be more precise.

 

What other options are out there? Arc was going to made a big mess. I guess I could have tried mig if I had a mig welder? Would (or should) that have looked neater?

 

My preferance would be not to weld and to use traditional techniques but I am not completely against electric welding as long as the result is asthetically pleasing.

 

The dish on this snake like  candle is arc welded. Just a couple of tacks each side and hidden underneath. 

 

 

 

 

I have also made a couple of pot racks and these have used rivets. Nowhere to hang it up so here are some of the parts balanced on my leg to give the general idea. Obviously there are another 2 drop bars and lots more hooks. For the cross bars I think they should have been mortice and tennon but instead I just mushroomed the ends over and probably left too much stock length so the heads are too large.

 

 

I have some other questions about fire height (too low in firepot) in the forge and mortice and tennon joints but will save that for another day. We have family coming around for Easter Sunday and Mrs BM will start shoulting at me soon......

 

BW, BM.

[arftist]

What were you brazing with? Chances are if you can braze you could gas weld. Not much of a mess once you get a little practice and you can make small beads.

 

I think the big heads look good, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

 

Ideally for a tenon you would use a top and bottom swage smaller than the rod. The bottom swage could be a swage block, a hardy tool, or both the bottom and top could be combined into a spring tool with a hardy mount. After you swage the rod to a consistent diameter, you can clean up with a monkey tool.

 

You could also isolate some material with a bottom fuller, (hardy tool) or even the edge of the anvil, then form the round tenon by hand then clean up the shoulder with the monkey tool.

[bogmonster]

Yeah, I would have liked to gas weld and was actually taught to gas weld years ago but must have forgotten it all by now. Unfortunately I am using oxy/propane. Acetylene is difficult in a doestic property in the UK I think. Probably could get a neater job done with it though.

 

For the tenons to get a clean edge do I need to use a 'set' tool. I am thinking here of an acute edge (say about 70 degrees) to form the shoulder first? I have a fly press and was thinking of making a set tool for that with top and bottom edges. Once the shoulders are done I think I could form the tennon over a nice square edge without too much difficulty. I have made a sqaure tenon in this way on a course (if I remember correctly).

 

As for the fullers, I was going to have a go at making my own. I have some leaf spring which is quite thick in the middle. I was going to drill and then cut through center of hole to make two halfs. Because I would lose material with the blade kerf I might actually need to cut off center of the hole with one hole making only a top or bottom. I like the idea of drilling as I think this way I will get clean edges which I think will be required for the tenons. However I suspect I ahve this all wrong and there is a much easier way.

 

BM.

[bogmonster]

Of course I meant swage not fuller above - doh :wacko:

[the iron dwarf]

two blocks clamped together and drill down where they meet, I have done this to make tools for a hydraulic swager for stainless wire rope in the past


to weld the drip trays do it from above through a hole in the tray, it then wont show, mig would be best for this

[ThomasPowers]

Tig!  You can weld razor blades together with a tig.

 

As for tenons I did a bunch of sq tenons with my screw press by placing a block on the bottom even with the edge of the top ram and just setting a stop block on it the thickness I wanted the tenon. Scribe the length wanted, heat and wham wham wham wham turning the piece as to get the tenon in the middle.  Then reheat and use a monkey tool to dress the shoulder---I used a socket as the monkey tool.  This of course presupposes that the tenon is the size of a socket driver but 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" gives some flexibility and old sockets are cheap at the fleamarket.

[Curly]

I've attached drip trays in the past by simple drilling and tapping a threaded hole then just using a countersunk bolt to attach the tray.

Also has the advantage that you can easily remove the drip tray if needed to clean up any spilt wax.

Might not be classed as truly traditional though!

[DSW]

When you say "arc welder" I assume you mean stick. If your machine is DC capable you can use it to do basic scratch start tig as Thomas suggested. You can make very small clean welds with tig, but it does take more time to learn than say mig does. I'm pretty sure there is a thread on basic scratch start tig off a DC stick welder posted on here. If your unit is AC only, then that won't work for you.

 

I could also see brazing working, depending on how everything is set up, it would change how much "mess" it made. You really don't need a tone of brazed material for that application. a simple dab or two from the top of the plate thru a hole would probably be more than enough to lock things in place and not make a huge mess.

[VaughnT]

Just my opinion, but I don't think those rivet heads are too big at all.  Looking at it, I'd say they are perfectly sized for the width of the rack and add a bit of meat to the appearance.

[bogmonster]

Thanks for all the advise. I have made a monkey tool and have just ordered up some O1 steel to make a blacksmith's helper tool. I will also be making a butcher tool and will be giving mortice and tenon a go. Now onto heat treating but I will start another thread for that.

 

BM