Admanfrd Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 This has been bothering me for awhile, if the idea is to tilt the hammer for different radiuses, why fuller and make the hammer longer. doesn't this make you have to turn your wrist more? Is there a reason for the lengthening of the hammer? I have not found anything about this in particular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashelle Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Turn the hammer not your wrist so much. The fullering grooves separates the face from the cheeks. It also brings the face of the hammer out, like you said. So with the face further from the eye you can then use the underside of the hammer to move the metal like a cross pein. So sides of hammer move metal like straight pein. Underside on edge of anvil, this time tilting your wrist some works like a cross pein. So back to like you said tilt the hammer, not turn your wrist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaughnT Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Fullering the hammer blank helps to isolate what will become the faces from the area that will be the cheeks. This makes hammering the cheeks easier because you don't have to worry about dinging the faces..... which means less clean up at the end. Commercially-made ball peen hammers use the same technique on an industrial scale. If you're making a different style of hammer, there's no need to worry about it. Lot's of ways to skin the cat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admanfrd Posted April 20, 2014 Author Share Posted April 20, 2014 So, the idea is to be able to use the bottom of the hammer and to ease forging? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 from my experience fullering to separate the face dose nothing. You can only hit with a hammer 5 ways flat, left edge, right edge, toe and heal. It is more of a design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashelle Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Isolating what will become the faces is a better choice of words then me using the word separate. So it is a practical design in that it helps serve a purpose while forging. It isolates/separates the faces from the cheeks. Bringing the face further out. Which allows the heal to be used (more) in moving the material. For example with the hofi style hammer that is short and compact it is harder to use the heal, much easier to just flip it around and use the crosspein. But since the rounding hammer lacks a straight or cross pein the heal is used. My wrist doesn't like that movement so much so unless it's just a couple of blows I switch from the rounding hammer to a cross pein. I think we are all saying basically the same thing. I'm not the best at wording things though. Rashelle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockstar.esq Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Rashelle - I really enjoyed both of your replies - you certainly made me think more about how the surfaces can be used. Admanfrd - I've never made a rounding hammer myself however there are videos of some being forged at Brian Brazeal's shop. During drifting, the faces of the hammer are struck between a cupping tool and a flatter. With the fullering this would serve to allow the faces to upset a bit without distorting the fullering around the eye. It seems like I recall reading that the fullering on the cheeks is done to create a stronger connection to the handle. I have seen video's of farrier competitions where they're using rounding hammers with large cheeks and fairly small (short) faces. One farrier I've talked with preferred them because there was less handle torque using the radius as a pein. The variable pein of the rounding hammer is a feature with a compromise - you've got to develop technique to offset the hammer's torque. The cross pein doesn't have the torque but it's not as flexible. I find longer hammer heads resist torque while falling better than shorter heads. That makes them easier to use for planishing but harder to use for toe or heel strikes. I think I saw a youtube video posted by Daniel Lea where he was drawings stock to a point. The big rounding hammers are capable of impressive levels of fine detail in skilled hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashelle Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Thank you rockstar. The large eye cheeks help give surface area contact between the hammer head and the handle. The more surface area contact with an hourglass eye and a good fit the more secure the hammer head. I am not sure which person Brian Brazeal or Uri Hofi, but I'm pretty sure one of them quoted Alfred Haberman (in english translation, heehee) as saying (I can't remember the exact saying darn it so I'll put it in my own words) "the hammer eye is the house for the handle." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5starhobo (blake) Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 I have made multiple roundings hammers with Brian and Alec and a few more. My understanding, like stated before, is that when you isolate the faces, this allows you to use the edges of the face better since you have a little more space since the "cheeks" of the hammer arent sticking that far out. At the same time you are isolating the cheek material, this allows you to draw the cheeks out longer on both sides allowing for more friction since there's more surface area of contact. Thus you are less likely to lose a hammer head :) I wonder if Brian would pitch in for an answer here. I have a feeling im missing something. Hes the one who would truly know why he makes his hammers that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dntfxr Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 One thing I've noticed from using a "makeshift rounding hammer"- just a shaped 4lb sledge, is that there is more mass in the center diameter of the hammer. I think by using a proper fullered/lengthened rounding hammer you reduce the twisting torque compared to a rounded sledge of the same length, but keep the length the same. BTW I don't have a proper rounding hammer yet but I can see the potential advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Keep your eyes open for a "Plate Maul" they are for straightening or shaping plate and are just serious turning hammers. Not real heavy but the face and pien are closer to a spike maul in diameter so their effect is concentrated. I'll get a picture of mine up tomorrow. If I forget remind me please, I forget a lot anymore. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinobi Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 '?do=embed' frameborder='0' data-embedContent>> post number 10, brian answers the same question regarding fullering on the type of tapered shank curved blade cut off hardies he demonstrates and cites applying the same principle to hammerheads as well. i dont know for how long but last i saw Brian was on a demo circuit through california, so i suspect he is still on the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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