Champion #1 Power Hammer Dimensions

[Alaric]

Can anyone tell me the rough dimensions of the main casting of a Champion #1 power hammer? I'm going to pick up a basket case hammer this weekend and it would be helpful to know this information before I leave the shop. The dimensions I'm primarily interested in are the height and the length of the side of the base plate, also the weight if the bare casting would be useful if someone has a guess. 

 

Thanks,

 

Richard

[Quebecblacksmith]

Check on this web page. http://www.newenglandblacksmiths.org/power_hammer_info.htm

 

This page give me a lot of information for the building of my power hammer.

 

Thierry

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

A complete #1 without the electric motor mount is around 1,400#, 1,600# with.  Height is under 7'.  I am doing a trade for one, and that is what I would say after looking at the one I am getting. I would guess that the base is 12" x 24" I was surprised how small the footprint actually was when I saw it.  Probably very close to a similar sized Little Giant.

 

Question , going off your location, and the Land Rover, did you know Bill Vallerand?

[Alaric]

I didn't know him well but I did know him. I made it up to his place once and got to see all his trucks.

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

I knew him through a machine gun dealer I worked for. Really nice guy.

[Alaric]

The power Hammer made it home yesterday. It is going to be a major restoration project but it replaces my plans to build a tire hammer, will be about the same amount of work and is cooler because it is old.

I haven’t had much time to really go through all the parts but here are my Initial observations.

1) The bearing caps are missing, some previous owner fitted bearing blocks when the babbitt wore out.
2) The dovetails for the lower hammer are gone and the gap has been opened up further.
3) One of the peddle hoops is missing.
4) The tup has been cut down and a piece of RR track has been welded to it. the ways for the tup are very worn
5) One of the through pins for the spring is missing and the ties that go from them to the tup look homemade and are worn out.
6) The spring and linkage to the flywheel look to be in very good shape.
7) The upper pulley has a 4” chunk broken out (I have the piece) and a second piece broken out of the side about ¾” deep and 3” long ( I don’t have the piece).
8) The century motor that came with it look to be original and looks to be in good shape from the outside but is stuck.

I don’t see any major issue in fixing all of this and making anything I am missing but I would love to find someone close to me who has one of these that I could look at and take measurements off for parts I need to make.

Does anyone know what the main casting and tub would be made from? They are obviously cast but cast Iron? Or something less brittle?

Here are the pictures I was sent before I bought it.
 

[ThomasPowers]

Might be worth taking the motor to be evaluated by a motor shop.  The originals were generally a slower speed than typical modern ones.  Mine is a hulking brute many times the size of a modern one of that hp rating---but I was told that when it gives up the ghost I should expect to go up by about 1.5 times the hp rating as the old large motors have more torque as they have longer moment arm distances.

[Alaric]

I am hopping to same to motor, in addition to being better suited the this kind of work it just look correct on a machine like this. The speed listed on the motor is 1750RPMs so it's pretty standard in that respect. I'm hopping the stator is just rusted to the rotor.

[ThomasPowers]

OK some of the old ones were 900 rpm and QUITE expensive to get one that speed today!

[Jim Deering]

Gday Alaric

 

Did a ground up rebuild on one of these far too many years ago to be recalling a number now! It was a basket case too, but perhaps not as rough as yours, in that most of the parts were present, if not correct

 

I'd estimate the main frame casting at about 900lb, give or take. They are not a terribly heavy hammer and the entire thing weighs about 1400lb, without the motor. The Century 1HP that came with mine tips the scale at 140lb

 

If it is stuck, it is possibly rusted between the rotor and stator bore. Take it easy, avoid solvents and you might be able to get it to move and eventually come apart. Solvents will dissolve the winding insulation and that will fry things if you hook power to it

 

"Isonel" made by Schenectady was what I used to reinsulate the winding after I had an earth leakage test done on mine to determine if it was worth saving. It handled 500V so it was worth saving. I can check the spelling and if there is a grade of that stuff tomorrow or you if you want... just let me know

 

It could be stuck at the brushes too, so have a thorough and gentle inspection of the switch end of the motor too. Specialist motor repairers can make new carbon brushes if you need them

 

These old motors are a work of industrial art and are well worth restoring

 

The Century motor I had for it was only 1HP and it really isn't enough for these hammers. The paperwork calls for 2HP and that much power makes it a very lively little hammer. The smaller motor resulted in treating it gently all the time, which didn't do justice to the machine. The extra grunt is well worth having. It would require a bit of creative work, but I think you could get a modern 2HP motor and put it inside the shell of one of these old Century motors, if keeping the 'look' of the motor to compliment the hammer is important to you and the old motor is in fact dead

 

The tup is cast steel, the frame, cast iron. I don't have any material grade information, but given they are over the century mark, neither is likely to be very high-spec

 

I can provide you measurements if you get stuck, based on mine and it was rebuilt to dimensions provided by a number of US-based smiths who helped me out way back when. 1998 rings a bell!

 

Regards

Jim Deering

[Alaric]

The motor I have is 2HP so if I can save it should be a good match to the hammer, if I did the math correctly the hammer RPM should be about 292rpm does that sound appropriate?

If the tup is cast steel then 1018 should be ok to build up the missing section from I would think. If you could provide measurements of the overall height of the tup without the die and the footprint of the tup including dovetail placement and dimensions that would be very helpful as would dimensions and placement of the lower dovetail.

I’m planning to square up the mess that is the anvil surface and mate a new piece of material to it with good contact throughout and the dovetail already machined into it and then bolt and possible weld it in place. Any thoughts on whether I should use mild steel or cast iron for this?
Can anyone point me to information on rebabbitting bearings? I know the basics but some comprehensive information to help with prep and selection of the proper alloy would useful.

Thanks,
Richard

[njanvilman]

I have a Champion 0 in operating condition.  If you want to make a long day of it, I am in NJ.  I have driven to Southern Maine and back in about 12 hours.  You are welcome to come on down and see my compete hammer.  I know it is slightly smaller that what you have, but it has all of the original parts in their correct places.  PM if you want more information.

[Jim Deering]

G'day Richard

 

2HP is good and even better if the high torque Century can be resurrected...

 

I run mine at a calculated speed of 260bpm, which I can vary with the slipping belt of course. I have two pullies on the idler shaft - used to gear things down from the motor, with all of the drive mounted overhead - the other pulley gives 300bpm. I find the slower speed a bit better to manage that the almost flailing behaviour it exhibits at the higher number of blows per minute. Faster is probably better if you are just looking to belt the tar out of something; slower is better for control, but it is not that much slower that the compound tup movement generated by the toggle linkages is reduced to the point of ineffectiveness. The printed matter on these hammers states 300bpm for this model by the way. I just find that a bit quick

 

I should think 1018 would stick to the tup OK. Warm it first and let it cool slowly, as it is a fairly thick section to try and weld cold. Over here in the land of Oz, leaving it outside on a sunny day will get it to +65 Celsius, no problem, otherwise gentle heat from a torch or similar will do the job. You'll probably notice oil start to come out of the tup as you heat it and you'll need to make some allowance for this whilst you are welding. Stainless rods are a bit more tolerant of dirty parent material - and no, you won't get it all out unless you heat the tup to yellow! - so you'll be playing that by ear a bit. From the images you've posted, about 2 inches of the bottom of the tup is missing. That is a lot of build up to do mate! Perhaps a bolt-on die, with a freshly machined flat and square to the slide surface for it to register against might be a better option...

 

Take the opportunity to true up the slides on the tup as well, as if they are not straight on all three running faces, the hammer will be difficult to make run smoothly. Same goes for the bolt-on guides, which are steel and the slide, which is cast iron. Sounds like a lot of machining, but the beauty of this design of hammer is that is you are really unable to afford or do the machining yourself, a surface plate and a file will get you suitable surfaces. It just takes longer. If you don't know how, you're going to be learning to handscrape bearing surfaces too. That will be a real treat!

 

If it comes time to weld the bottom die area, again, the hammer frame will be like a sponge, in reverse. Heating makes the trapped oil ooze out of the pores in the casting like it is being squeezed. I had sandblasted and primed mine, then heated it up for the main bearing babbitt pour and it looked like a black and white image of the worst case of chicken pox you've ever seen. I welded the die dovetails on mine using stainless - I'll need to look for the grade - rods. Grind the area to a clean and sound surface, preheat the frame, weld a little with low Amps and high Volts, peen, weld a little, peen... Make CERTAIN you weld on more material than you will need to enable the welded deposit to be ground back to the shape and size you want. You can use cast iron rods, but the stainless ones seem far more forgiving when the parent metal is contaminated. Yep, said that twice now...

 

Having had a second look at the die area in the frame of yours, I would make a suggestion for you to think about. Rather than trying to build that big opening up with welding, machine it entirely flat, blend the radius up from the flat area to the original throat of the frame, avoiding all sharp transitions and then make a sow block - I'd be using steel for this part - for the die to be mounted into. If you have the machining gear, a dovetailed connection for the sow block would be the best way to connect it. Otherwise, I'd be drilling and tapping into the frame and bolting the sow block in place. I really think the frame is too far gone to try and weld repair it to the point of being able to make a dovetail in it that will allow the die to be connected to it directly. The sow block solves that issue to my way of thinking, but it is only a suggestion

 

If you do machine the frame flat at the lower die area, make sure it is square to the face the tup slide mounts to, both horizontally and vertically, as it'll make fitting up and tuning the hammer much easier later on

 

If you use a length of precision ground - not peeled - shaft that will be what you make the main drive shaft from later, you can reduce the amount of handwork you'll be doing after you pour the bearings. Sit it in place using the bearing recess reservoir ends to locate it, make it all square to the tup slide face - remember you've already made the lower die face square to the tup slide face, haven't you? Use Babbittrite to block up any gaps around the reservoir ends that you are using to stop the ends of the bearing recesses and the holes in them that hold the dummy shaft in place. High temp silicon will also work, but let it go off before pouring. I recommend Babbittrite, as it is specific for the job and proven to work. To avoid "soldering" the dummy shaft to the new bearings, soot it all over with a pure acetylene flame before pouring. I've used Formply to make the reservoir ends from. They will char and are toss outs afterwards, but the wood beds against the frame next to the bearing recesses and that reduces the leak paths for the molten metal

 

There are a multitude of alloys available for these sorts of bearings and I suggest you go to your industrial supplier and tell them exactly what you are doing. They will then go to their supplier and you'll get what the whitemetal supplier thinks will work best. I suggest this, perhaps circuitous path, as most industrial alloy producers, here anyway, deal in big quantities - tonnes - of the stuff and a one off inquiry for a few pounds may fall on deaf ears. An industrial material supplier will have access where you may not is what I'm getting at. Again, I can provide you the alloy composition I used, which has been working without fault for many years, but it's not the sort of thing I have in my head... may your Gods bless notebooks! To give you a lead... In Oz we have The August Metal and Alloys Company, AMAC, who have a good website. From memory, their Crushmet got the nod, but I'll have to confirm that. Nearest international standard is BS3332/4 and the composition is 75.5% tin, 14.5 antimony, 7.0% copper and 3% lead. Recommended for harsh conditions and poor lubrication

 

NOTE - USE safe work procedures for handling this stuff! Not only will it burn a hole in you in the immediate term, it can, and will, poison you in the long term, especially as the vapour forms of these materials are quickly absorbed by the skin and respiratory systems and are proven to lead to all sorts of truly horrible health implications over time

 

Richard A Kern's book 'The Little Giant powerhammer; Rebuilding, use, history', ISBN 978-1880173022, Published 1992 by H&K, is, to me, the definitive reference on repair these old spring hammers. Take no notice of the fact it was written about the Little Giant. The how-to advice applies to any sort of machine tool from this era, not just power hammers

 

I note you have no bearing caps. I can provide sketches if you need them. Not terribly complex, but if you are pouring whitemetal into them there are a couple of things to make sure they have. Keying recesses is one - to give the solidified whitemetal something to hold onto and two holes in the top with a reservoir of some sort above them. This feature is so you have one hole to pour whitemetal into and another for the air to be pushed out of, plus a reservoir to keep hydrostatic pressure on the whitemetal as it solidifies. You'll need a block of steel big enough to make both from simultaneously. More later...

 

That might be starting to bore people, so I'd better leave it there.

 

Regards

Jim Deering

[Alaric]

My plan to fix the bottom of the tup and the anvil area is to fit a machines insert with the dovetail mount for the die already machined into them. They will bolt in place with many bolts, the question of welding was whether or not to weld the seam. Everything will be fit with good overall contact.

I have some training and experience in machine tool rebuilding and recently finished re-scraping a surface grinder, I have a biax and hand scraping equipment as well as an engine lathe, 2 mills and the previously mentioned surface grinder so I should be in good shape to tackle the job of rebuilding the tup ways.

I have just ordered a copy of The Little Giant power hammer, thanks for the reference.

Sketches and/or pictured of the bearing caps would be helpful, I’m planning to make them from Dura-bar gray iron.

Thanks Jim for all this info.



njanvilman I’d love to come done and check out the hammer you have, I’ll have to see if I can work out the timing to do so.

Richard

[ThomasPowers]

over here in the states  http://www.rotometals.com/Babbit-Bearing-Alloys-s/2.htm   will sell babbit in per ingot amounts (ingots weight between 1 and 5 pounds as I recall.

 

They had excellent customer service when I bought tin and flux from them for re-tinning cook pots.

[njanvilman]

Let me know if I can help in any way.  Just to give you an idea on the timing, from the bridge at Kittery to central NJ is about 5 1/2 hours on a weekend with no traffic delays.   Or exactly 3 hours from Hartford, Ct.

 

If you can create good exact wood patterns for your bearing caps, you can get them cast in grey iron.  If there are no foundries up there, I use a good one near Lancaster, Pa.  PM for more information.

 

To add to my other post, my hammer is compete except for the motor.  The original had sat outside for so long, it was toast.  I did find a good used motor at an electric motor shop that had a 3/4" shaft the matched the original flat belt pulley.  Most new motors today are either 5/8" or 7/8" shaft.  This saved me the step of boring out the pulley.

[Alaric]

It's looking up for the motor, I was trying to figure out how the pulley comes off and I put a pry-bar between the back of the pulley and the motor housing and when I put a little pressure on the back of the pulley it moved away from the motor about 1/4 of an inch and the motor spins like new now. If I push back while spinning I can feel it start to drag so it wasn't rusted just jammed. I'll still take it to a shop and have it gone.

 

I still need to figure out how the pulley comes off, any thought? It's wooden, it looks like it might be layers of plywood, there doesn't appear to be ant set screws. 

 

Richard

[Francis Trez Cole]

if you look there are other threads on champion power hammer I put the patten number and there is a lot of good information in the other pages '?do=embed' frameborder='0' data-embedContent>>

[Jim Deering]

G'day

Measured the tup on my Champion Blower and Forge Hercules No. 1 and here is the result. It's in metric, but there are plenty of converters out there...

The 8° noted on the dovetail's sides is what I chose to machine mine to. It was close to the original, but I haven't a record of that available right now. You can make it what you like, but 8° is as good as any, unless you are looking to use modern dies, in which case just match what the die maker machines theirs to.

The dovetail is machined square to the vertical face of the slide in elevation, parallel in plan, which keeps everything easy to set up later.

The sides of the dovetail are parallel, unlike those found in some hammers, which have a 1:100 taper. Unnecessary, in my opinion.

Alternatively, you could weld a block to the bottom of the tup and make your dies bolt-on types. I do not think there is enough space for sufficient material to use a dovetailed assembly in your hammer's tup. Your hammer, your choice.

Also measured the frame on my Champion Blower and Forge Hercules No. 1., The distance from a readily identifiable datum to the die seat face is noted on the sketch.

I left the dovetail details off, as you are planning on doing something else with that area. If you want the info, I can get for you no problem though.

The red in the final sketch shows one idea to make a die mounting plate - almost a sow block, but getting enough thickness from the available space your hammer frame has to call it that might be challenging -  and its fitting to the hammer main frame. I'd go with at least four, preferably six bolts, as I think the old, dirty cast iron frame will let go of welds due to fatigue failure. Bolts are easily re-tightened... Use high grade bolts with a fine thread pitch and tap deeply. The reasons should be obvious. Hexagon socket head screws would be best, unlike the hexagon heads shown in the sketch.

I'll see what I can come up with for the main bearing caps soon. Yours could either be made to serve the function regardless of appearance, or replicated from the old in order to be in keeping with the original style of the machine.

Quite likely the pulley has just swelled onto the motor shaft, by the way. As you have a suitable grey iron bar material available, I'd suggest making a new one and just getting rid of the wooden one. It'll have to go to service the motor, so it has to come off and I'd have my doubts it could be salvaged.

Regards,

Jim Deering.

[Alaric]

Thanks for this information, It is going to be very helpful.

 

Based on your measurements just over 2” of the Tup has been cut off but only 1” of the Dovetails has so I may not bother to extent the dovetail when I add the 2” back to the bottom of the tup. I have settled on a variation of your idea for the Die retainer for the lower die.

A couple of more questions :

 

What is the diameter of the pin that holds the links to the Tup?

 

Is the 65lb the weight of the Tup with or without a die?

 

If the dovetails for the dies are not tapered are they held in with duel tapered shims?

 

 

Thanks again for all the help,

Richard

[David Gaddis]

If you need some high quality pics of an operational Number 1.... let me know.  Use profile info

 

Francis Tres Cole and I both use these things, though there are some differences. His motor is mounted high in the air and my motor is near the floor.

 

My unit may not be so clean for photos but should show all that is necessary.

 

David G

 

 

 

carry on

[Jim Deering]

G'day Richard

 

Glad to help!

 

What is the diameter of the pin that holds the links to the Tup? I'll get back to you on that... I made this part new and reamed to original hole so it is a little bigger than the original, but only marginally so. I re-made the toggle arms too, with bronze bushings in them, as the old ones were well and truly cactus

 

Is the 65lb the weight of the Tup with or without a die? Just the tup, from memory. I've put a somewhat larger than standard tup die on mine and a far larger bottom die, so my No. 1 is probably closer to 70lb that 65lb

 

If the dovetails for the dies are not tapered are they held in with dual tapered shims? That's how I've set mine up. Dual tapered keys, opposing each other, one short, the other long, with a hole in it to permit use of a hook tipped slide hammer to extract it; saves on mushrooming the end. Despite many people saying don't do it, I also use brass shims between the dovetail, die and keys to prevent any picking up. That is a major pain to deal with if it happens and the shims stop it 100%. The original dovetails in my hammer frame were so dilapidated that they were impossible to measure from so I simply did what I thought would work best. Sixteen years later it is still working, so the pudding has been proved

 

I'll get some images of the hammer and post them later today

 

Regards

Jim Deering

[Alaric]

The pictures that would be of the most help are some pictures if the bearing caps from the top and if someone has the original motor mount that mounted on the back at the bottom I'd love some pictures of that so I can mimic it in 1/2" plate. Pictures of the clutch/brake linkage from a machine with the motor mounted in that position would also be of interest.

 

 

Thanks again for all the help.

 

 

Richard Chase 

[ThomasPowers]

I have an original motor mount but it will be a couple of weeks before I get back up to my shop.  I will try to remember to shoot it.  It's off the hammer at the moment and so I can get shots in all directions.  Mimic???  it's pretty massive.

[Alaric]

I'm ok with massive, I can use heavier plate if needed. Pictures of one that is off would be great. 

 

Does anyone know anything about cast iron and having parts cast?  Class 30 Iron (30,000psi) should be sufficient for the bearing caps shouldn't it? 

 

Also any pointers on pattern making would be appreciated, I understand the basics but have never made a pattern before. I looked under "Foundry and Casting" but didn't find much.