Grundsau Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 I was asked to replace some brass styled candle stands with iron stands in a church. From the photos I have seen the church is older with a lot of stone. They feel that iron, rather than brass, will go better with the overall style of the church building. There is a Paschal candle stand and a shorter one that need to be in two pieces for ease of lighting. The Paschal stand is 4' tall but the candle must be approx 30". The shorter candle stand must also come apart with a short hand hold under the drip pan so it could be carried during service. Both stands are for single candles. Their complaint about what thecurrent stands are that the brass candle stands screw together and always sit tilted at an angle. The new design they like is with three legs and a center shaft of 3/4" or 1" material. And then they told me about the ability to take them apart. These candles are tall and need to be secured so they don't fall but this has me stumped. Maybe a section of pipe with an ID that snugly slips down over the central shaft. But how do you put hammer marks on a pipe without distorting the round shape? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marksnagel Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 The best way to put hammer marks on the pipe without distorting it too badly is to fill it with sand and plug the ends just enough to keep the sand in. Make sure that the sand is totally dry because you don't want any moisture in the pipe. It will boil and pressurize the pipe and this is "Bad". Mark <>< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grundsau Posted January 13, 2013 Author Share Posted January 13, 2013 Thanks Mark. How do you feel about the pipe being used as a handle that acts as a sleeve to fit down over the center upright? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 These candles are tall and need to be secured so they don't fall but this has me stumped. You may wish to make a *cage* for the candle for support. But how do you put hammer marks on a pipe without distorting the round shape? Support the pipe from the inside with another pipe, rod, or bick. Texture lightly as heavy texture may thin the walls and enlarge the diameter of the pipe. The carry handle could have a center post that fits into the stand and legs as part of the design. This way once it is lifted from the support it can still be placed on a table. (Think square tubing for the top of the stand and a hardie post for the candle). The stand could then be used as a support for other items, like a holder for flowers or a sign. Nothing wrong with mixing solid material on the bottom with heavy wall tubing at the top and hiding the joint or weld with collars, or other decorative elements. Overall you can play with decorative elements to gain extra support as well as add appeal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thingmaker3 Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Instead of a pipe, you could forge an appropriately tight spiral. Or a pair of rings one above the other. Or the pipe could be hidden inside a larger decorative forging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry H Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 to not distort, use a bottom swage. You could square the bottom of a round pipe to fit over a twisted 3/4 or 1", sq. bar, put a collar on the solid sq. , for a stop...four legs would be better,....on second thought use a diamond twist below the pipe, ( still use a collar as a stop ).....another idea ....use four 3/8 or 1/2" sq.( equals 3/4 or 1" ) , form legs, collar the bottom, the weight of the top will determine the spread of the legs, twist it, collar above the twist, fit your pipe over the remaining straight pcs., 8"-10" should do it , then work your magic on the top....oh yeah, I've done a lot of pipe forging, 6" radius, no sand, no collapse, take your time,...uh oh...is there a secret there somewhere ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted January 13, 2013 Share Posted January 13, 2013 Do remember that some of the candles are carried in the upper portion of the holder for procession and recession, and other times. Take this in account when applying decoration to the holder.You should be able to examine the candles and holders they are using. The socket for the paschal candle is probably 3 inches deep.Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grundsau Posted January 13, 2013 Author Share Posted January 13, 2013 All great ideas. Thanks. Unfortunately the church is in Maryland but my contact may bring a candle stand or two up to me. They don't want it too ornate and weight is a factor. The Paschal candle stand currently is made of thin wall brass. These are some of the specs I have to follow. It stands next to a baptismal and the legs can be no wider than 13". It's candle is 2.5" wide. The current drip pan is 9" wide and I was going to use my swage block to make a 7" wide drip pan. The candel that will be held and carried during the service fits onto a 43.5" tall stand. Here are some camera phone shots that were sent to me. Candle stand that has removable candle to be carried Paschal candle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyO Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 I've used spring fullers on the anvil and gone slowly and carefully and had good results turning pipes into candles. I do it just like squaring a round in 4 blows rotating either 90 or 180-90-180 depending on how it moves on the first blow, then round the square. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaughnT Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 I would keep it as simple as possible, much like what they already have. The downside to the current stand is that it's ugly as sin and not very functional. We know the joint can't be threaded, and the top portion should be as light as possible while still being functional. So, I'm thinking about keeping the gist of the design, but using a pin in the bottom portion that fits a hole in the top portion. Something like a monkey tool being slipped over a round tenon on a railing. In this case, though, the monkey tool is the top portion of the stand. A 1/2" tenon should be plenty strong enough. I think the drip pan could be significantly smaller than the one shown. That thing looks as big as a dinner plate! Totally ruins any lines the stand might have had. Another thought is to go completely different. I'm of a mind to fabricate an upper portion that doesn't "match" or "fit" the lower. Let the lower be a stand for the upper hand-held candle holder. As long as the two pieces share the same look and design, obviously being a matched set, would that be unacceptable? Maybe something where the lower portion has a drip pan that the upper drip pan mates to. That would allow the upper portion to be set on a table or carried by hand. Did any of that make sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 I think the drip pan could be significantly smaller than the one shown. That thing looks as big as a dinner plate! Totally ruins any lines the stand might have had. The drip dish for a processional candlestick does need to be a lot larger than one for a static holder, think tilting/wobbling candle and bare hands.... If you want a smaller disc, one way is to have a temporary/moveable disc which can be positioned just below the flame and moved down over the candle life. Another is to use a clear glass or polycarbonate disc which will be visually less intrusive. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grundsau Posted January 21, 2013 Author Share Posted January 21, 2013 Before I start making design elements permanent can someone provide some input on stability of the Paschal candlestand. The footprint is 13" max with an overall height of 48" to the candle socket and will have a 2.5" wide, 30" tall candle. I was thinking of 5/8" solid bar for the center and solid 1/2" legs. No tubing for this piece. Seems like it will be unstable. 3/4" for the center seems a bit heavy. Am considering asking if they will allow the foot print to be expanded to 16" in diameter. I'd make the footprint in the 20" range if I didn't have the size constraints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Make the top part lightweight and keep the bottom heavy. That will give you stability even with a small footprint. Think table lamp design. Here is where thinwall pipe (or tubing) comes in handy.... you avoid the spindly look and keep the weight down on the top so that your center of gravity is low. I forge pipe all the time and it works easy and looks great! Don't fear the pipe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I agree, consider loading the base with lead or use heavy material for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaughnT Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 I would even consider a large steel ball on the bottom end to add more mass. I certainly wouldn't look bad and I have seen similar on older candle stands. Could you shrink the size of the drip plate and put on some nice handles on the sides of it? Something to give it a bit more flair while still being practical and visually appealing. Thin-walled tube with lead birdshot in the bottom third would certainly lower the center of gravity, and there's a lot of neat stuff you can do with tubing. Maybe use a combo of tubing and solid, blending the weld between the two, so you can do some decorative piercing or twisting..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grundsau Posted January 23, 2013 Author Share Posted January 23, 2013 Thanks those are some good options also. My contact thinks the legs can be made wider on the Paschal candle stand and will re-measure the location it is going. I picked up 2 - 5' sections of 1" pipe today and was told it is schedule 40. Tried flattening four sides and also tapering it down. Will do more tomorrow with it. In the attached photo is what I did with a light hammer. I may have hammered it too much on the sides. Didn't have enough time to fill in the shadows with light but all four sides look like the top side. Also for fun I got the other end under the little giant. Squoosh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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