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Home build induction heater


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#1 Daniel.85

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 09:57 PM

First test of a IH that my brother is currently building, heats 1/4" stock to orange in about 8 seconds running at 1/3 power. Very rough set up, will all be contained in the case when its tuned and complete, more pics and videos to come tomorrow(7/8/12).

Will have digital controls and other blacksmith friendly features.

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#2 Pug}{maN

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 02:15 AM

im getting this one, good price , and you can make it any size...


http://www.fluxeon.c...ual_rev_1.0.pdf
A blacksmith is a person who creates objects from wrought iron  or steel  by forging  the metal; that is, by using tools to hammer, bend, and cut.

#3 ironsmith

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 12:33 PM

nice electronic bench, do you have a how to on making one?
i do electronics as a minor hobby and would be interested in trying to build one myself.

thanks!

“What's proper, is becoming: See the Blacksmith with his white Silk Apron!”
Ben Franklin

#4 monstermetal

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 10:43 PM

im getting this one, good price , and you can make it any size...


http://www.fluxeon.c...ual_rev_1.0.pdf


That thing will not hold up to use as a "forge" Its designed to heat up a single item one time such as a stuck bolt... It will not have the duty cycle to do any actual "work" with it.... I think you would be better off with a propane burner than that thing if the intent is to do blacksmith type work...
My great concern is not whether you have failed, but whether you are content with your failure.
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#5 monstermetal

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 10:49 PM

Pretty cool pictures! I would recomend using smaller diameter copper tube for your coil, fewer turns spread farther apart at a higher amperage setting... Also your losing the effect of both the top and bottom coils because your leads back to the machine do not make a full loop. I realize your just testing and playing but a better fitting coil will make a huge diffrence in the efficency of the power transfer too... you could probably heat a larger part faster in that coil than you can the small material...
My great concern is not whether you have failed, but whether you are content with your failure.
Abraham Lincoln

#6 Daniel.85

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 09:26 AM

Sorry I didnt put more pictures up like I said, brother had to go out of town but will be back soon, I will update as we go. He did get that little bar to heat up in about 3 seconds before he left though!

Ironsmith - He does have some of the schematics on another site, I'll see if I can get the link from him.

Larry - Thanks for the info on the coil, we definitely plan on trying all different types of them, I had thicker material that we were going to test cause we figured the setup we were using would have better penetration on larger material, but will have to wait till he is back.

#7 neonjohn

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 03:45 PM

That thing will not hold up to use as a "forge" Its designed to heat up a single item one time such as a stuck bolt... It will not have the duty cycle to do any actual "work" with it.... I think you would be better off with a propane burner than that thing if the intent is to do blacksmith type work...


Hi, John DeArmond here. Chief Engineer of Fluxeon.

I agree with your advice that the Roy is not a suitable forging heater for anything but the smallest items. While it will "hold up", it simply won't make the necessary power. 1500 watts isn't enough power for serious forging. And as the case temperature reaches its maximum setpoint, the processor ramps the power back to control the heating.

The good news is that we're developing a 5 and a 10kW heater designed for blacksmithing. In addition to my own blacksmithing experience, we have a blacksmith who is partially sponsoring the development and so the heater will be designed for proper blacksmith heating. Stay tuned to the http://www.fluxeon.com site.

Meanwhile a couple of bits of advice to you guys who are making heaters. The first and probably most important bit of advice is, don't go too high in frequency. The higher the frequency, the thinner the penetration depth from skin effect (rule of thumb: penetration in mm = 400/sqrt(frequency)) thins and so does the thickness that the heat is deposited in. If the penetration depth is too thin and the power high enough for rapid heating then it is possible to heat the surface to working temperature while the inside is still relatively cold. That can lead to cracking of the surface.

Ideally the penetration depth should be about 1/3 the diameter of the piece. If the frequency is too low and the penetration depth is too great, the fields will cancel in the interior of the piece and iit will never rise above the Curie point. So it's best to err a bit on the side of high frequency. We're working in the 20 to 80kHz range (it will be user-changeable) with the expectation that must 'smithing jobs will be done in the 30kHz range.

If I can be of any assistance, please let me know.

John

#8 Daniel.85

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 07:41 PM

Yep we are aiming for 30-70khz too.

#9 monstermetal

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 09:33 AM

John good to have you! Nice to have guys who understand the tech side of these machines, I wish I had a better understanding of the mechanics involved. The machines I import in the 15KW size have a range of 30khz to 100khz and that seems to be ideal for blacksmithing operations.. The larger 25KW machines have a bit narrower range of 30khz to 80khz...

John will your machines be water cooled? Many of the operations I use my machine for the machine is running at close to full power full time... I have coils made that I rotate parts in and out with several parts always being heated so I can keep up with work ( there is always a hot part)
My great concern is not whether you have failed, but whether you are content with your failure.
Abraham Lincoln

#10 monstermetal

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 05:00 PM

Sorry to have high jacked the thread... I will keep it related to your cool home built machine ;-)
My great concern is not whether you have failed, but whether you are content with your failure.
Abraham Lincoln

#11 Daniel.85

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 11:08 PM

Lol dont worry about it, being the only active thread in this whole section there is room for discussions. We are going to properly wind the coil and use some 1/4 inch tubing, I have a couple questions about your machines too Ill pm you later.

Ill keep adding updates as I can, Wednesday we may have some more to footage, my brother should be able to have a more solid setup running. He is waiting on stonger mosfets before a full power setup.

Quick Q for Larry and John, If either of you guys have a "kill a watt" reader or similar thing, what are the voltamps of your machines when they are running and heating something?




#12 monstermetal

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 09:14 AM

Well mathematically I should be about 10,000 watts input.... The machine I use in my production is a 25KW 420V three phase with a rated input of 23A so if you do the math that’s 9660 watts... As far as empirically measuring the input since its 420V three phase Im not sure how you could measure, maybe a amp clamp but I think you would have to isolate a single leg of the cord... I currently don’t have a 15KW set up in the shop but I will have soon.. I got one on its way that I plan on using as a demo unit...

On a side note I have two machines, A 15KW self contained single phase unit and a 15KW split transformer unit that both need repairs... I don’t even know what is wrong with them, they were at Grants shop when I packed up his stuff and I brought them home figuring if nothing else they would make good spares..... Since your brother seems to be both knowledgeable about induction and electronics maybe I should send you one and see if you can figure out its issues? The guy who Grant used to have do repairs on the machines had a stroke and is not in such good shape these days and I have not found anyone local who wants to work on them... There are very few (Grant has sold over 300 machines and have had a total of 5 machines have fail in the last 8 years) but when they do have issues it would sure be nice to have someone to trouble shoot.... I can order all the major machine parts individually so repair should just mean figuring out what module or component is bad and replacing it..
My great concern is not whether you have failed, but whether you are content with your failure.
Abraham Lincoln

#13 Daniel.85

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 09:54 AM

Oh ya I forgot you were running 3phase, that's fine.


Talked to my brother and he would be interested in checking out the machines, if they are designed in any way similar to other induction systems he should be able to find the issue. Check your pm.

#14 Daniel.85

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 10:22 PM

Assembling, still waiting on new mosfets.... and a few other tweaks after the next test.

Funny how sparse the unit looks in that case.. puts out a lot of power still.


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#15 Daniel.85

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 01:04 PM

Quick video - Running just under 1kw, Heating 1/4 inch round, heats up the larger stuff nicely too, videos of that later. 3kw is going to be great!

http://s1059.photobu...15-12-30-52.mp4

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#16 pkrankow

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 05:25 PM

So you just run tap water continuously or do you have a chiller of some type? Do you have a fan on that epic heat sink?

Phil
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#17 Daniel.85

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Posted 15 July 2012 - 06:02 PM

Yep just pumping tap water through it, will either have a hookup to the water source or have a pump and just have a water bucket like we've been using, works fine. Not worried about calcium buildup, it would take forever for that to happen and just running some vinegar or CLR through it would clear it out.

No fan on the heatsink, those are the mosfets on there and they stay cold on that thing.

#18 Daniel.85

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Posted 18 July 2012 - 08:16 PM

Few new pics with some of the reworked components, no more big heat sink.

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#19 Daniel.85

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 10:04 PM

Got some new pictures and videos of the Induction heater, its coming along great! Running on 120v 140amp breaker, about 5kw, no more mosfets, better water block.

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http://youtu.be/h-fZZS-J7aw

http://youtu.be/3McdEJf2qz8

#20 Daniel.85

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Posted 08 August 2012 - 10:05 PM

3/8x1" bar






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