Guest baddog Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I could use some advice folks. I want to make my own rivets. I am a tool junkie and want to build a rivet maker. I spent several hours on the net and can not find a tool (or plans) for making them. There are tons of tools for forming the head but I want to take various sizes of stock and make the entire rivet . I have some 1" steel and my thought is to take the stock, drill various size holes through it and then weld a plate on the bottom for the rivet to bottom out. I am wondering though if I will be able to get the rivet out after upsetting the head? I did see a video wheere a guy used 2 pieces of metal and drilled them in the middle (gap) and pulls the rivet out after he seperates the 2 plates. Would this work better? Any suggestions or experiences would be great. Thanx! P.S. how do you make your rivets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Reference Wiki A rivet is a permanent mechanical fastener. Before being installed a rivet consists of a smooth cylindrical shaft with a head on one end. The end opposite the head is called the buck-tail. On installation the rivet is placed in a punched or pre-drilled hole, and the tail is upset, or bucked (i.e., deformed), so that it expands to about 1.5 times the original shaft diameter, holding the rivet in place. To distinguish between the two ends of the rivet, the original head is called the factory head and the deformed end is called the shop head or buck-tail. Because there is effectively a head on each end of an installed rivet, it can support tension loads (loads parallel to the axis of the shaft); however, it is much more capable of supporting shear loads (loads perpendicular to the axis of the shaft). Bolts and screws are better suited for tension applications. ---------- Blueprint BP1008 Rivets to length may be of interest to you. The rule of thumb is 1-1/2 the diameter of the rivet stock to form the (one) head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I am old school and really think tha shop time is the best way to learn. try both of the methods you mentioned and see how they work. The results will stay with you forever. Things you read not so long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric sprado Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 If you've formed the head,you've made the rivet. What else is there? Need to cut in to the right length and rivet the buck end. I'm a little confused about your "rivet making machine"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iron woodrow Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 basically in one blow you cannot upset material more than one and a half times its original diameter. we used to upset 22mm hex drill rods ends to 33mm roundbut it took two steps in a eumco300tonne upsetter. so depending on your tooling, it is simply a task of making the dies. but- do you have a power hammer or press? the dies were two part dies with a heading tool coming from the back. now, your idea could work if you take it in 2 goes. one solid bar with the bottoming out plate- to start the upset, and form the shoulder. then another solid bar with holes deeper than the intended shank length, open end to knock the back out with a bit of rod... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Is this the type of tool you had in mind,? used with a rivet snap to form the domed head, or just a hammer for the rustic look Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I've done it a couple of ways. One is to upset the end of a bar in the vise, then reheat and drop through a hole in a plate on the anvil and head to shape. Then cut off with hack saw. The other way is with a tool like John B shows. Heat the end, clamp in tool clamp in vise and head it. Then cut to length with hack saw. This works for round or square rivets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeMcKee Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 sometimes I cheat and use 16 penny nails (uncoated).... it makes a nice uniform back side and you can dome the finished end or make it look a bit more handmade and square it up with hammer... If you make a tool similar to a nail header with the head side to dimention and the bottom side flaired out you will have no problem getting the rivet out after heading it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 If you want to go simple and quick you can just use Jake's method... cut a rod to length and place it, then head from both sides alternately until you get it tight in the middle. I like it for tongs. Doing it this way I usually start the rivet hot but finish it cold... at least on tongs where I am setting a half inch shafted rivet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Waiting around for a shipment of rivets wasn't an option for a particular job I was involved in once so neccessity prevailed...............simply a block with a hole 1/64 over size,,,,thickness of the block is the length you want the rivet........OA torch...... and the pix tell the rest...............I hammered this one but a header works fine too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest baddog Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Appreciate the ideas guys. I see that both work apparently so now I need to make them both and try them out. Much thanks for the info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmoothBore Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 If you take a look at some "cold header" tooling, you will quickly see many way to adapt that technology to your needs. The techniques for cold forming, are directicly applicable to Forging. ( Once you've seen a "nail machine" run, you'll seriously question the rational behind making that sort of thing by hand. ) . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quick60 Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Looks like macbruce has about the best darn rivet making ma......contraption i've seen so far. Nice work. How bout rivet making die? That sounds good.. I think. I would think you could take that and make a series of holes of varying depths the last one all the way through for various lengths rivets. Cool!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 A seperate block for each length is needed.....If it gets stuck you need to access the hole at the botom to punch it out if nessary. They don't work well with pcs were you get the whole blank hot, then the shaft swells and the have to be driven out....If you're lucky they come out, If not you need to make another block...... :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Well, I just dug a little further into this and I've had a change of mind........I posted this a NWBA and a friend there says he uses these. He puts a bunch in the gas forge and takes a full heat on the blanks when he doin' it and they come out fine. He stressed not chamfering the holes,because the end of the rivet upsets into the chamfer causing it to bind. I tried this under the PH and after I quenched the block and rivet together It came out with very little effort... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Quenching the rivet may harden it a bit. Heading the rivet cold may be a issue for a quenched rivet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 John B's and my style of header Is shown in Diderot's 1700's encyclopedia. Francis Whitaker made similar tools which he used as swages. Whitaker would carefully drill the holes into both slabs of metal while the two pieces were clamped together. They were centerpunched on the join line. He put a thin cardboard between the two pieces before clamping and drilling. In this way, theoretically, the drill would stay centered, thereby removing an equal amount from both halves. You get nearly a half-round channel. In fact, it's good if it isn't a full half round, because that will clamp and hold better the stock that's inserted. If you don't get a good grip on the stock, you can sand some off the flat working faces. My tool is made of some sort of high carbon railroad switch. We annealed and drilled holes to accommodate 3/16", 1/4", and 5/16" stock. The top of the tool measures 2 3/8" x 1 5/8". The tool is hardened and tempered. If I need only one or two rivets, I will often make them an old fashioned way as shown in Schwarzkopf, "Plain and Ornamental Forging." Use oversized stock and neck down the rivet shank on the near radiused edge of the anvil using edge to edge blows. Square; octagonal; round. Nick all around on the parent stock for the head, heat, wring off in a heading tool, and forge the head. The shoulder will be radiused until it is placed in the tool and headed. The heading tool will sharpen the shoulder. This method is time consuming but affords good practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borntoolate Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 So let me verify the length of a rivet? 1.5 x the thickness for the head. So two heads equals 3x the thickness plus the thickness to be riveted. Is that Correct? I have been making tongs and I can make a rivet just fine. hole in a block, put hot rivet bar in,, hammer the head. My block has through holes so I can pop it out from the bottom side. As it cools it aughta shrink and pop out easier but who can wait that long... BUt my 1" block is too long. Thus my clarification question above. I have few solutions but when I do things I always mess up and can list my screw-ups (learnings) easily. Rivet too long. Makes it hard to put a nice head on. IT bends over and makes a perhaps serviceable but ugly rivet. Make sure my above question is correct and follow it. Hammering carelessly. Rivet bends over and makes an ugly rivet. Solution: Watch Hee Haw. "Doc, it hurts when I do this" Doc says "Don't do that". So, Don't do that. Lots of wisdom in that old show. Riveted items not held tightly together when making the first hit with hammer. Rivet expands between the two items to be riveted and creates a gap filled with expanded metal between the two pieces. ITems are not able to be riveted tightly now. Pain in the butt to remove rivet. Have to start over. Have to make a new rivet. Potential to damage or disform the two parts getting the rivet out. PITA! Solution: Slowdown and make sure the riveted parts are tight together before making the first hit. First hit is critical. Practice prior to riveting to make sure you know how you are going to do this. Start over if this takes to long, don't just hit the rivet and screw up. Rivet hole closely matches cold rivet diameter. Rivet is heated and expands. Hot Rivet does not fit in cold rivet hole. Fumbling at the anvil trying to make hot rivet fit cold holes. Can't be done. Solution: Make rivets smaller than hole (or drift hole larger than rivets) Let hot rivets expand while you hammer them to fill larger hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Geez. Are you asking questions or solving problems as you write? The rivet should be a snug fit whether hot or cold. After insertion, for a cold rivet, allow 1 1/2 times for the head. If you have more, you may get work hardening cracks or the rivet shank may want to bend. I will often file a chamfer around the end I'm going to upset. This helps prevent cracks. If riveting hot, you can leave 1 1/2 or 2 times the shank diameter or if careful, a little more than 2 times. I will most often use the ball of a ball peen hammer for the upset; it seems to help when using angle blows to correct slight bending, etc. As for the gaposis between pieces, before peening up, the two or more pieces are set tightly together with a 'rivet set' or the Brits call them a 'rivet snap.' You can purchase them at Tandy's. Osborne still manufactures them. It's a tool with a hole in the end which is placed over the inserted shank and hit, thus compressing the sandwich. The rivet set also has a "domer" on it, a smooth, circular depression which can be placed over the peened head and struck in order to get rid of hammer marks. If the shank is bending instead of upsetting, you're getting a clinch. No good. Learn to use correction/angle blows as you work to keep the head centered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Hi Frank, just to clarify, in the UK when rivetting we have a set and a snap, A rivet set comprises a double purpose tool to SEAT the rivet into position (the hole) and a support for the preformed domed head of the rivet similar a similar size and shape as the SNAP thus its used to SET the items ready to rivet. The SNAP is a domed recessed tool (US Domer?) used to shape/planish the rivetted head. The set part is basicaly similar to a monkey tool with a hole for the rivet shank, and a cross drilled hole at the end of the central hole. Adjacent is a recess to support the head when rivetting The set is secured in the vise, The rivet (Correctly sized for length) is placed in situ in the pieces to be rivetted, the assembly is then placed onto the set with the free rivet end placed into the hole, the rivet snap is then used to seat the pieces together by placing it onto the existing head and giving it a few blows to ensure the rivet and workpieces bed together. The item is then removed and flipped over and the domed head placed into the dome of the recess of the tool in the vise, and this acts as an anvil so you can start to rivet using an appropriate hammer (a ball pein is useful)raround the periphery first, the you can use SNAP to finish shape the head. And as a general observation to all not familiar with rivetting, If you are rivetting items together, the burrs on the holes of the pieces to have the rivet pass through should be removed otherwise the pieces will not bed down flush. The rivet should be the correct length, already discussed in great length. If its not the right length, then that is what hacksaws were made for, Lots of light blows are better than heavy clouts to form a dome head. Use the snap to form a smooth head Finally if the rivet shank is too long, and you can't be bothered to cut the shank to length, don't be surprised when you have trouble trying keep it straight and to form it without the split ends occuring. Not trying to teach grandma (in this case Grandpa) to suck eggs, hopefully it will be useful to some not familiar with the process and terminology Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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