macbruce Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 This little brainchild of mine was first demoed by me at the ABANA conference at Flagstaff in 2000....I'm thinking about producing them in the near future The video shows the raised bead function of the tool.....The less than perfect demo piece (I'm out of practice) is 12ga steel. The bead is 1mm high and the groove is 2mm deep, It will of course do lighter stuff........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernforge Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 It looks great, but what would we use it for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clinton Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 What makes it work? I can not really see the picture is very small. I have seen a similar set up with an air hammer on top, but this thing is very quiet- not like my air hammer for sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Nice tool for sure Mac. How much air does it use, a cylinder that size would normally use quite a bit but the stroke is so short I'm guessing not a lot. That'd also explain why it's so nice and quiet or is there a muffler? Let me know if you'd like a hand explaining WHY someone who likes to change metal shapes on a fundamental level would want one. <sigh> Well done. Frosty the Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted October 30, 2011 Author Share Posted October 30, 2011 What makes it work? I can not really see the picture is very small. I have seen a similar set up with an air hammer on top, but this thing is very quiet- not like my air hammer for sure The guts of the of the hammer is a pneumatic needle scaler/chisel body modified for this purpose. It's operated with a foot control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clinton Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 It seems real quiet for a needle scaler- did you do something to it to control the noise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted October 30, 2011 Author Share Posted October 30, 2011 It looks great, but what would we use it for? Glad you asked, First off it does more than groove, It also planishes and forms with different dies and weight configurations. Secondly I'm pretty certain no self respecting by hammer and hand, died in the wool, traditionalist will ever get within spiting distance of one of these. That's cool, I made it for me. In fact it was inspired by a very well known traditional blacksmith from WI....After watching his demo veining a leaf with a C frame held chisel that was struck with a hand hammer, my power hungry mind twisted that into a little air hammer...The smith from WI was not impressed at Flagstaff, no matter......I think we're a diverse bunch so to each his own. What I used it for primarily was at first was veining leaves, cause I had a shipload of em to do....Then I discovered I could form the leaves as well after jury rigging a new set of dies. Then it was on to planishing sheet into curves. A friend of mine used his for chiseling grooves into the flats of a 3/4 sq bar before twisting it.........Hot. It could have done it cold as well but not as deep. Anyone out there ever put a groove in the middle of a collar? I can do grooved collar stock in 4' pieces in 3-4 min...........I get plenty of use from mine.......It's just a little power hammer. The grooves in the attachment were done cold in about 1/10 the time it would take with a hot cut. Attached Thumbnails Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted October 30, 2011 Author Share Posted October 30, 2011 It seems real quiet for a needle scaler- did you do something to it to control the noise? That procedure doesn't produce much noise.....Forming and planishing are impossible without earplugs...gloves too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayden H Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 So... Its a needle scaler with a hardened steel pin in it, instead of the needles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 I have an air palm nailer I've been brainstorming on using in a similar but hand held usage. Neat machine Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted October 30, 2011 Author Share Posted October 30, 2011 So... Its a needle scaler with a hardened steel pin in it, instead of the needles? <p> Ingersol Rand makes exactly the same tool for $500 SPEEDAIRE Needle Scaler KitPneumatics > Pneumatic Tools > Needle Scalers Needle Scaler Kit, General Duty, Average CFM @ 15 Second Run Time 3.88, CFM @ Full Load 15.5, Stroke (In.) 1-17/32, 4400 Blows per Minute, Min. Hose (In.) 3/8, Air Inlet NPT (In.) 1/4, Required Pressure (PSI) 90, Length (In.) 18, Straight Handle Type, Lever Throttle, For Use With In.B1/CLECO In. Design Chisels, Includes 3AAH7 Needle Scaler, 19 Needles, Flat Chisel, Moil Point Chisel, Angle Chisel and Case Grainger Item # 3AAH6 Price (ea.) $218.75 Brand SPEEDAIRE Mfr. Model # 3AAH6 Ship Qty. 1 Sell Qty. (Will-Call) 1 Ship Weight (lbs.) 9.5 Usually Ships** Today Catalog Page No. 3650 Country of Origin (Country of Origin is subject to change.) Taiwan Enlarge Image Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeatGuy Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 You could probably use this tool to put a twist in light gauge tubing cold in minutes. Although it does not have the same umpf as a mechanical nibbler it could probably do many of the same operations. brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayden H Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 THAT KITS EXPENSIVE!!!! I think I'll talk to a few buddies and get one from one industrial scrap piles for nill to nothing. Some of the things those people throw away... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernforge Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 ......Anyone out there ever put a groove in the middle of a collar? I can do grooved collar stock in 4' pieces in 3-4 min......... Hugh McDonald roller mill feed rate is 10 to 17 feet per minute, with grooved dies. ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 OK, I'll ask http://www.harborfreight.com/pneumatic-planishing-hammer-94847.html for $99 built, just needs dies and uses standard air chisels already which are cheap, why not? I see your machine is listed at 4400bpm and the HF machine is listed at 1300bpm Anvilflower's idea takes the cake, if you have a rolling mill. You can also make flat dies that pass the with the stock through the roller instead of changing rollers. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted October 31, 2011 Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 Hugh McDonald roller mill feed rate is 10 to 17 feet per minute, with grooved dies. ;-) OK, I'll ask http://www.harborfre...mmer-94847.html for $99 built, just needs dies and uses standard air chisels already which are cheap, why not? I see your machine is listed at 4400bpm and the HF machine is listed at 1300bpm Anvilflower's idea takes the cake, if you have a rolling mill. You can also make flat dies that pass the with the stock through the roller instead of changing rollers. Phil The roller mill is way faster flat grooving but does it do raised grooves, form, texture, shrink or planish? I've heard the HF thing planishes pretty good (and that's all it does) as long as as the frame gets some beefing up, I already got the beef. The pistol grip hammer shanks are .410 round that spin,not the 1/2''square which makes linear and free form grooving possible. That hammer is slower because it has a longer stroke, therefore more smack and less control......The Zipmax doesn't need more power and less control...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 why is everyone so picky, if you can't see the use or quality of the tool then don't knock it. I could figure a bunch of uses for this from the video alone. It's almost insulting to talk about the HF "planishing hammer" in the same sentence as this tool. Awesome tool Bruce, you da man and don't let anyone say otherwise. Yes the comparison the HF plannishing hammer is low, but you have to admit they *look* very similar at first glance. Macbruce's explanation on why his is better is pretty good, and good enough to convince me (again) I don't want the HF hammer. I can see dozens of uses for the Zipmax too, especially if it comes with several different die shapes and multiple beading options. It looks like it can also do the job of the plannishing hammer with the correct dies in it. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainely,Bob Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 The biggest draw for me making my own tools or buying from someone I know who makes them is that I get EXACTLY what I want and need rather than what someone in a corporate headquarters thinks I should have. I would venture to say Mac has far more real world experience than the design guys in China who are just looking for a cheap way to knock off somebody else`s R&D. I`d also bet you`ll run thru 3 (or more) of the HF tools for before you wear one of Mac`s out. Not to mention Mac`s will work as advertised and not break when you need to most (like in the middle of a rush job). We also know how to contact Mac directly ,where he lives and we both speak the same language (metalworking) so the support you can expect will be several orders of magnitude better than the HF version. Need I go on? :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Furrer Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I think it is a good and useful adaptation of existing tools..re-tasking them. I have a P9 pullmax that can do about the same thing so I am not interested in your version, but I can see how some would be. Tom Latane' prefers the hand tools for most of his work. We all have our path. Ric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chyancarrek Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I had someone give me a couple of the HF versions mentioned above - A few months ago I set them up like Bruce's to do veining and vessel forming. The control on them is kinda sketchy because the pedal valve is real low-end but they do an Ok job after you make up some beefy dies. They're flimsy and noisy as xxxx no matter what speed but for free, they're a treat. I do light, smaller scale work so we'll see how long they last. I don't think I'd spend the money on the HF model if I wanted to get serious work done tho. I've seen some fellows using PullMax's for doing the same thing and man o' man was that some smooth operating! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Nice tool macbruce it does a great job. There are alot of versions of this type of tool made and sold by the autobody sheet metal guys out there. On the other hand I do the same thing with the " C-frame" you spoke of only I mount it in my Bull air hammer and turn the valve down. Vanes 12ga. acanthus leaves like nobodys business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted November 3, 2011 Author Share Posted November 3, 2011 Nice tool macbruce it does a great job. There are alot of versions of this type of tool made and sold by the autobody sheet metal guys out there. On the other hand I do the same thing with the " C-frame" you spoke of only I mount it in my Bull air hammer and turn the valve down. Vanes 12ga. acanthus leaves like nobodys business. Doc, You're a man after me own heart.......I do exactly the same thing with my thicker leaves, the damage is a little more severe if you miss a blow but with practice and dialing the machine in I love the results myself..... The good autobody versions will do most of the functions mine does like the Pullmax, Minimax and the Baileigh ph 19 but they cost a heck of allot more more than the $1,100 base price of mine (without dies). The Zipmax will groove thick stuff hot or cold....3/16 on up to whatever you can get into it....within reason, I wouldn't work 2'' sq hot in mine....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 New video showing hot grooving and twisting......... Zipmax 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twcoffey Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 I am a little confused by one of the first images you posted. Is the large cylinder above the needle scalar simply a weight? Ted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 I am a little confused by one of the first images you posted. Is the large cylinder above the needle scalar simply a weight? Ted Yes, I put up to 15+ lbs if needed to dial in a job. cold grooving/fullering needs more weight.....or alu requires no wt, I can lift the chisel a teeny so it doesn't go through the really soft stuff....Unlike a Pullmax where you apply more force with the pedal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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