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Tap and die?


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Ok so everyone says I need a tap and die set, and shoot, it is another metal working tool so I "ain't arguin' nobody." :D

But which to get!

Grizzly tap and die sets

I have no clue when it comes to tap and die so which of these sets would be good for me to start out with and what lube should I get with them?

FYI The $215 and $350 sets are not in my price range. (So I know what some of you are thinking. "You just spent $1500 on a hammer, air compressor, and trip expenses and you can't pay $215 for a tool you will use for the rest of our life." [i'm being sarcastic!] Well, the $1500 to begin with is why I'm can't pay the $215! LOL I'm back in tight-wad mode!)

Ok so seriously, what do you think?

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Dave, what size holes do you think that you will be tapping? In other words, what size stock do you use mostly? Get the best set that you can afford, within the size range that you feel that you will probably be working. Don't get a set of taps and dies that go up to 7/8" or 1" if you mostly work with 1/4-3/8" stock and only drill or punch small holes. My 2 cents :)

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depends on what you need um for... ive bought a lot of taps and dies over the years .. a basic set is a good start but i would look for a used set of older taps and dies and then replace the broken or lost ones ... i recently bought a set made by champion forge and blower company . it has a wood case that was warped but came with most of the taps and dies and cost me 70$ includeing shipping ! if you have a machine shop surplus place nearby might check it for extra taps and dies or even sets ...as far as what size set the bigger the better ...but affordable is important also ... ide stay away from the cheap chinese sets tho...they dont cut well and tend to not be as accurate ...good luck!

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Don't you have car boot sales, garrage crearance sales in your area?
They are often a good source of 2nd hand sets(here older often = better quality) then suplement with specifics as and when you need em. Also scouring pawn shops gives good results! :)
Good luck!
Ian

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Two ways to go here,The first is to buy as you need them and buy high quality new.
If you`re buying the set to get the wrenches then that`s false economy and I can fix that for you.E-mail me if that`s the case.
The second approach is to buy a used set.The problem with this is all the worn and missing ones are the ones you`ll use most often so where`s the savings after you replace them?

Two of the things I find work well is go to sharpening services(most medium to large cities have at least one) and ask what they have that nobody has come back to pick up and go to auctions and flea markets.
As manufacturing in this country is moving off shore many companies are auctioning off their inventory and you can buy new gear for pennies on the dollar.Look for items in their original packages.You can usually pick up packages of 3-6 new taps(HSS) for less than a single Chinese tap(HCS) at the hardware store this way.
A tap and die set is just a start point.You need a complete drill index in order to use all those taps.By that I mean an index that contains number and letter drills as well as fractional drill sizes.You`ll need a chart to tell you what size drill goes with what tap and gauges to enable you to match nuts and bolts to taps and dies.
You will need taps in both National Fine(NF) as well as National Coarse (NC) for SAE bolts and nuts and if you have imported tools in the shop you`ll need Metric taps,dies and MM tap drill sizes to go with them.
Bolt dies and pipe dies are completely different animals too as bolt threads are straight threads and pipe threads are tapered so they seal.
Are you getting the picture?
If you need help getting up and running post it here and we can help you out.I`d offer to loan you stuff but at the prices I get it for it`d be cheaper to just send it one way and let you keep it.
Let us know what you need there Dave.I`m sure I`m not the only one who`s over run and would be glad to help us both out by clearing some shelf space. :)

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Dave Try going to Sears if you have one near you and buy a set that goes up to 1/2" as these sizes will be the most used over the course of your life time.Any other sizes will be used very rarely and if truly needed could be added to the cost of the job at hand as an expense of doing the work.
Please don't forget that you will need a set of "Tap Drills" to go along with your taps,Every hole tapped has it's specific drill size required and they cover the gamut from "letter, number.and fractional"depending on the size of the thread required. It will do you no good to have a tap and die set without the proper drills.

Hope this helps,

Doc

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To get started *fast*. Go buy top quality ones in the sizes you need. DO NOT BUY CHEAP TAPS, removing a broken tap is NOT FUN!

Then keep your eyes open for good ones on the used market and fill out your set as they turn up at affordable prices.

Yes the guy who never buys retail is saying buy the taps! Cheap taps are false economy!

Dies are a bit more forgiving in their failure modes, especially if you are only using them to clean up damaged threads.

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Someone on here put up a pretty good tool list. These kinds of lists can be handy, cause you can prioritize your purchases according to needs, and budget. A young friend is getting into metalwork, wanted a plasma machine, I talked him into an OA torch, much more versatile, not to mention cheaper. For problems like broken bolts, or bits of pipe that need to be backed out, a few reverse drills will work much better than easy outs, IMO.
If all you have for metal cutting at this point is a grinder, a good first steel cutter (and one I still use a lot) is a 7 1/4" metal cutting disk on a second hand skilsaw. I actually prefer a sidewinder type for this, it puts the disk on the far side, less sparks in yer face.

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Dave, One place no one has mentioned is a pawn shop. I have bought alot of tools from there name brand at good prices. Don't be afraid to haggle with them on the listed price. You might have to buy a few things to get to know them but they will deal.

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I may repeat some of what was said above but bear with me. Firstly stay away from retail stuff you are no longer a consumer you are now a producer. Those sets are more for fixing damages threads than actually cutting new ones as they are carbon steel not HSS. Home depot, sears Grizzly northern tool harbor freight are not the places you should be looking not that they don't have some other good stuff. You need good sharp taps of industrial grade and high quality cutting oil. You should view taps as consumables like abrasives when they get dull throw them out and get a new one don't convince your self otherwise. I by my taps from MSC Enco or Mcmaster-carr Grainger Fastenall they all sell good stuff. I have them shipped because its not worth my time to pick them up. Use High speed steel or better. Use a cutting oil like tap magic or equivalent. A broken tap that would have costs me 5 bucks to replace can take hours to remove. A broken tap on average costs me 30 to 75 bucks of lost labor to remove. I would buy new taps as needed and not use old ones unless they have closely inspected for sharpness. I found a few years ago a Greenfield Little Giant tap and die set. It was missing a few taps I replaced those. The great thing about these sets are that the dies are adjustable and can be resharpened with a small oil stone. They also have a guide to keep the stock strait in the die to prevent misalignment. They are big bucks new but I got mine for 75 bucks at a junk store. I think my set was $900 new. These sets were designed with blacksmiths in mind they are rugged, adjustable and can help cut threads on a less than perfect forged part. http://www.collectibles-articles.com/antique/Little-Giant-Pipe-Tap-Set-with-adjustable-dies_250734194792.html

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Let me echo what has been said above, you are now a micro-industry, think like a business man. Time is money. Your time is what you sell. Buy from an industrial supply house and have it shipped to your door whenever possible, not drive out to a big box or hardware store. You just add a $35 dollar an hour delivery charge to the item, your lost time. All of the suppliers have sales, watch for the items on your wish list.

I would add Wholesale Tool Co to the list of suppliers, and note that old tools sometimes use Whitworth taps and dies. Really old tools were made before there was a standard, and have to be re-drilled and re-tapped as often as not. The only import drill sets that I have been remotely happy with are the cobalt sets. The rest either snap off or dull on mild steel. One was so soft that it actually unwound the spiral flutes rather than break!

Working on old tractors, I have broken off left handed drill bits trying to get broken bolts out, then broken off EZ-outs trying to get the left handed drills out, and finally used a diamond bit in a dremel to clear out the mess. Plus, I think my language stripped the bark off of nearby trees. :blink:

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One of the best things I did for my tapping and thread cutting needs was to put everything into a big fishing tackle-box with each size in a different slot. This gave me space and a place to replace the craftsman brand stuff with industrial quality taps and accompanying drills. When I buy taps I buy multiples and stash them in the bottom of the box along with my wrenches and die holders.

If I hadn't started with the cheap set to start with and the nice box I would not have gotten as well equipped as quickly. (I think the two cost me $20 at a garage sale.) Once I had a set up with room to expand it made sense to buy a more expensive tap every now and then when needed. It would have been harder to justify buying a tap for a single use if I knew I'd misplace it before I needed it again. If I hadn't had the tackle box with room for expansions and upgrades, then I would only have room for the pieces it came with and it would have interfered with getting bottoming taps, tap drills and other additions to my kit.

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I have one of these It is super handy. http://store.huot-store.com/tool-storage/product/13590.html You can find them used on Ebay from time to time.

Yup, I've got my eye peeled for one of those, after ten years I'm starting to outgrow the tackle-box. I think it would be intimidating to try and fill one of those up if I didn't have a tackle box full of stuff already. ;)
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Dave, what size holes do you think that you will be tapping? In other words, what size stock do you use mostly? Get the best set that you can afford, within the size range that you feel that you will probably be working. Don't get a set of taps and dies that go up to 7/8" or 1" if you mostly work with 1/4-3/8" stock and only drill or punch small holes. My 2 cents :)


Ok I'm going to have to take this one at a time!

I use mostly 3/8" and 1/2" right now.

I've been thinking lately about making little three or four leaf branches, threading the bottom of the stem and screwing it into a piece of log. (It would be a relatively low $$$ item for craft shows.)
The stem would probably be three eights but the threaded part would be smaller, more like 1/4".

Right now I don't think I would ever use anything outside of maybe 1/8-1/2 inch stuff.
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You need to know what size tap or taps you need and go from there. Everyone has said where to get but do you know WHAT to get? I guess this is for your compressor?


Well it was going to be for the compressor but if I can use the EZ-outs instead then it will just be for whatever around the shop. Most the time it will probably be for 1/4 and 3/8 stuff.
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