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I have a dumb question about hammer and rhythm


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#41 John B

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 11:59 AM

View PostDan P., on 08 September 2010 - 11:30 AM, said:

Traditional blacksmiths, in this country at least, traditionally used the traditional method of vocal commands, which they found most effective in communicating with persons sometimes located up to three yards away! Sometimes even eye contact was used!!

Are we talking UK? you don't have your location posted in your ID yet (London UK), if so I don't know where you got that from, or where you served your apprenticeship,

In the steelworks in Sheffield, you only got shouted at if you got it wrong, And eye contact?, not when striking.

Anybody else had experience of vocal commands instead of signals?

(Apart from anyone on our courses being on the receiving end of a shouted, "Get it Hot and Hit It" or some such other directive.)


#42 Dan P.

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 12:33 PM

View PostJohn B, on 08 September 2010 - 11:59 AM, said:

Are we talking UK? you don't have your location posted in your ID yet (London UK), if so I don't know where you got that from, or where you served your apprenticeship,

In the steelworks in Sheffield, you only got shouted at if you got it wrong, And eye contact?, not when striking.

Anybody else had experience of vocal commands instead of signals?

(Apart from anyone on our courses being on the receiving end of a shouted, "Get it Hot and Hit It" or some such other directive.)

Yes, UK. London, in fact, the capital city!

In this country I have only ever seen people do the elaborate hammer signals as a "demonstration", never as something that working people actually do.

Re; eye contact- your striker should be watching, should he not, and waiting?

#43 John B

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 03:24 PM

View PostDan P., on 08 September 2010 - 12:33 PM, said:

Yes, UK. London, in fact, the capital city!

In this country I have only ever seen people do the elaborate hammer signals as a "demonstration", never as something that working people actually do.

Re; eye contact- your striker should be watching, should he not, and waiting?

This is possibly getting a little pedantic now, but how often have you been in the working environment when strikers were a normal feature? I know of no forges now where they are working full time strikers,indeed personally I can't think of many forges in the last thirty years that had the luxury of employing full time strikers, Powerhammers and other methods have made them redundant by and large which is why you get the "elaborate" (exaggerated) demo's, that is usually the performance put on for the public, not necessarily how it was.

As for eye contact, yes they were watching, and they knew what was required of them, the eye contact was with the tools and metal, not each other. And as for waiting, they were usually preparing for what they new was coming, getting tooling ready etc

When regular strikers were used, the rapport was uncanny, there was almost a feeling of telepathy between strikers and Master, pure magic.

To go back to your previous post, apologies, re vocal commands, occasionally they would be used, usually when punching or chasing or other processes where the master had both hands in use to position tool and workpiece in relation to each other, but even then nods were used mainly. In my experience it was rare to hear spoken commands/indicators.

Probably showing my age now.

#44 Francis Trez Cole

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 03:43 PM

the way I was instructed was where the lead blacksmith strikes the striker strikes if he dose not strike you don't srtike. nothing has to be said and the lead has to set the pace as well and know the abilities of the striker. and make desisions with out hesitation
Longfellow:
His brow is wet with honest sweat,
He earns whate'er he can,
And looks the whole world in the face,
For he owes not any man.

#45 bigfootnampa

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 01:57 AM

Well I guess we haven't settled anything, but Isn't this FUN!?!? One thing I do see is how a signal could outflank language differences and ambient noise levels and it seems to me that eye contact would be quite dangerous when all attention should be focused on the work on the anvil. Looking about should be discouraged I would think.

#46 Mainely,Bob

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 02:43 AM

View Postbigfootnampa, on 14 September 2010 - 01:57 AM, said:

Well I guess we haven't settled anything, but Isn't this FUN!?!? One thing I do see is how a signal could outflank language differences and ambient noise levels and it seems to me that eye contact would be quite dangerous when all attention should be focused on the work on the anvil. Looking about should be discouraged I would think.

Quite right.
Having had to work amid the din of heavy manufacturing machinery I can tell you that you need to have your ducks in a row before you get into the thick of things.
Telepathy is wishful thinking!If you want things to progress smoothly and safely then a well thought out and practiced signaling system is essential.

Anyone who doesn`t see the merit in this type of system is someone who has never had to work under conditions that warrant such a system.Till they do they will never understand.
"Between our dreams and actions lies this world"-B. Springsteen





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