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Adding Carbon to Steel without Melting it?


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#21 Richard Furrer

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 08:32 AM

View PostThomasPowers, on 12 August 2010 - 02:01 PM, said:

Makes me happy I shipped so much of it to NM when I moved!
Wanna ship some back to Wisconsin? :)
I had hoped to get more when I stopped by Terry those years ago in Ohio, but the truck only held so much. <_< and I still have room to store more outside the shop.

Ric
Richard Furrer
Sturgeon Bay, WI
www.doorcountyforgeworks.com


#22 Randy

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 09:51 PM

Here's another way. To prove it works you can even start with wrought iron or pure iron. Do a grind test to verify that there is no carbon in the steel, just straight sparks. Now put the metal in a coal forge fire and slowly bring it up to a low welding temperature. Now you can let it slowly cool down or quench it. Put it back on the grinder and bingo, high carbon sparks. After all coal is carbon and at that temperature the molecules open up and absorb the carbon. The longer you keep it at a low welding temperature, without burning it, the deeper it penetrates. I have been making mild steel tools and spring tooling from mild steel this way for years. It works!
Randy McDaniel

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#23 Richard Furrer

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 08:50 AM

View PostRandy, on 18 August 2010 - 09:51 PM, said:

Here's another way. To prove it works you can even start with wrought iron or pure iron. Do a grind test to verify that there is no carbon in the steel, just straight sparks. Now put the metal in a coal forge fire and slowly bring it up to a low welding temperature. Now you can let it slowly cool down or quench it. Put it back on the grinder and bingo, high carbon sparks. After all coal is carbon and at that temperature the molecules open up and absorb the carbon. The longer you keep it at a low welding temperature, without burning it, the deeper it penetrates. I have been making mild steel tools and spring tooling from mild steel this way for years. It works!
Randy, That is exactly the same chemical process as the pack carburizing method.
It is the CO gas produced by the burning fuel which touches the surface of the iron and the iron bonds with the C in the CO and the O is freed to go. In the box the O gets more C and gives that to the iron, but with yours the O gets C and goes up the chimney.

It is posible to do the reverse as well and use the fire to remove carbon (which happens with forge-welding). I read a study which showed a drop of 0.02 per fold and cut weld with making pattern-welded steel (damascus).
It is also possible in theory to both add and remove carbon equally and end up with what you started with.

You can do the same with an oxy-acetylene torch as well...run the mix a bit low in Oxy and run it across the edge of the iron till it gets near cutting temp ..now go back and forth a few times and do the spark test again....its the same Fe + CO = FeC + O reaction. The higher the temp the more energy is there to increase the speed of the reaction....it happens much faster at near liquid than at 1500F.
This will all be in the DVD I'm making.

Technically iron and steel are a crystal lattice, not a molecular structure.

Ric
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Sturgeon Bay, WI
www.doorcountyforgeworks.com

#24 ThomasPowers

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 10:12 AM

Ric; will you be at Quad-State? I asked Terry if anyone else still had any and he suggested talking to Paul Ailing, which I can do before Q-S and if so we could arrange delivery at Q-S---if he had any and would sell it for a good price.
Thomas Psychotic Psychobabblonian Powers

#25 Richard Furrer

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 02:45 PM

View PostThomasPowers, on 19 August 2010 - 10:12 AM, said:

Ric; will you be at Quad-State? I asked Terry if anyone else still had any and he suggested talking to Paul Ailing, which I can do before Q-S and if so we could arrange delivery at Q-S---if he had any and would sell it for a good price.
Thomas,
I have a class to teach in Maine the following week and doubt I will have the time to go.

Ric
Richard Furrer
Sturgeon Bay, WI
www.doorcountyforgeworks.com





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