40 replies to this topic

[youngdylan]

Anyone used a jig like the one in this video?

Seems real neat to me.

[JNewman]

youngdylan, on 28 July 2010 - 04:07 AM, said:

Anyone used a jig like the one in this video?

Not exactly the same but I do use ones that work on the same principal. Essentially the ones I use are like offset top and bottom swages. I will take some pictures this afternoon.

[monstermetal]

The guy in the video is John Emmerling of Gearheart Or... Heck of a nice guy and a member of our local NWBA....

He is a member on here... Gearheart Ironworks.... I would bet he would be happy to answer any questions you have... I was just down in his shop a month ago and played on his DeMoore hammer.. a beautiful machine

[youngdylan]

monstermetal, on 28 July 2010 - 09:54 AM, said:

The guy in the video is John Emmerling of Gearheart Or... Heck of a nice guy and a member of our local NWBA....

He is a member on here... Gearheart Ironworks.... I would bet he would be happy to answer any questions you have... I was just down in his shop a month ago and played on his DeMoore hammer.. a beautiful machine

Thanks for that Larry. As I type I'm bandsawing chunks of 4340 to try one. There's only one word to describe my tong making abilitities ....and that word is s***. Looks a real neat way of making consistent accurate tongs. I'll post some picture of my results.

Theres certainly some talented individuals in that NWBA of yours

[JNewman]

Here is the tong offset tool I mentioned much simpler than the one in the video but not as complete. The other tool is for forging the eye offset with a stopper built into it. The nice thing about making a pair of tongs this way is that the hinge has nice round edges because you are just flattening a round bar.

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[Dodge]

Jigs in general are just COOL. I know there are some purists that would disagree, but they're a time saver if nothing else. And time is money after all. The company I worked for for would not be around if not for many of the jigs we developed right on the shop floor. Yeah it was fabrication, but the early blacksmiths were simply that age's fabricators

[youngdylan]

Dodge, on 28 July 2010 - 08:44 PM, said:

Jigs in general are just COOL. I know there are some purists that would disagree, but they're a time saver if nothing else. And time is money after all. The company I worked for for would not be around if not for many of the jigs we developed right on the shop floor. Yeah it was fabrication, but the early blacksmiths were simply that age's fabricators

Sure are cool, the best part of a job for me is the planning, tooling up, jigging and prototyping/experimenting ..... and looking at the photos at end. The inbetween bits can get a bit tedious with long jobs. More jigs, shorter this time.

I'm no purist, I can hardly forge weld but can certainly forge-a-mig-weld:)

[youngdylan]

JNewman, on 28 July 2010 - 03:59 PM, said:

Here is the tong offset tool I mentioned much simpler than the one in the video but not as complete. The other tool is for forging the eye offset with a stopper built into it. The nice thing about making a pair of tongs this way is that the hinge has nice round edges because you are just flattening a round bar.

Yeah, that rounded bit is nice isn't it.

Not known for my patience so I spent all yesterday making a similar jig and playing around with it.Never like just using mild steel so cut up and faced various lumps of 4340. Halfway through started to thing I'm gonna waste a whole day, this might not work, should be earning some money. .... End of the day I was patting myself on my back for having the stragegic foresight to make the jig. IT IS ABSOLUTELY WONDERFUL ..........Thank you John Emmerling, this is one seriously well thought out and extremely useful jig.

One heat to work the jaw area, one heat to rough draw the reins, one heat to swage the reins. Bish bosh, Bob's your uncle and you've got a well formed very accurate tong blanks. Apart from shaping the jaws to suit and punching the hole, I didn't use a hand hammer at all; the jig is that accurate.

I'll now spend most of today making tongs. I used 16mm round but next week I'll scale it up to use 20mm for larger tongs

Anyone got any thoughts on using EN8 (1040??) for tongs ?

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[monstermetal]

Im pretty sure Grant uses a fair amount of 1045 in tong making? Nice job by the way. Sure nice to have the ability to afix those jigs in your hammer hu?

[youngdylan]

monstermetal, on 29 July 2010 - 09:39 AM, said:

Im pretty sure Grant uses a fair amount of 1045 in tong making? Nice job by the way. Sure nice to have the ability to afix those jigs in your hammer hu?

Yeah I'm quite a fan of bolt on dies but agree with Grant that dovetails are the securest way of fixing them. Bolt ons are great when you want to a quickie or experiment. I guess I've got the best of bothworlds: 2 bolt on Kinyons and an Anyang with dovetails. Still could do with something in the 2cwt range with big flat dies ..... could also do with that 30t screw press of yours ...... and an acorn table ..... and an indu ........AND MORE ROOM

[Mainely,Bob]

A couple things come to mind in regard to using jigs.
One is that,in this case, you have the ability to quickly form up a set of tongs and are therefore more likely to take the time to make a specialized set for a job rather than find something to "make do"(vise-grips?).
The other thing is a more personal type observation,jigs free up my mind to some extent.
I find that if I have a tough problem and the frontal assault mode is failing to solve it then being able to turn my mind away from it and do something that almost automatically produces something allows my worker brain cells to stay entertained while my problem solving brain cells are left to themselves to get after the problem in relative peace.Kind of like keeping the kids occupied so you can think.
Many of my mind benders have had the fog lifted from them while kicking out product doing work using jigs that allow me to move into "semi-automatic mode".
Jigs rock,on more than one level.

[youngdylan]

This jig more than just rocks, it is absolutely completely and utter bl**dy wonderful. I just ****ing love it. One of the best bits of kit I've made for a while. Just love it. Thanks again John Emmerling.

I've got it down to 2 heats (with heat to spare) to make the blanks. You can do a lot of drawing on it in the first heat. It does help using a gas forge and 3 off 25-40kg hammers right next to each other though.

I'm so glad I used 4340 rather than mild....... I'll be using this tool A LOT.

Did I say I just love it?

The photo shows the reason I made it, tongs to hold various tooling for under the treadle hammer. So much easier having the tool ready clipped in the tongs rather than constantly swapping over. Went for tongs rather than punched eyes or welded handles because the tools mostly get used form varying directions.

I just love this tool. I always put off making tongs because I was **** at making them, they seemed to take froever and were always **** Kinda quite happy with them now.

Anyone got any suggestions for jigging for bolt tongs?

I love this tool.

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[youngdylan]

monstermetal, on 29 July 2010 - 09:39 AM, said:

Im pretty sure Grant uses a fair amount of 1045 in tong making? Nice job by the way. Sure nice to have the ability to afix those jigs in your hammer hu?

If it's good enough for Grant it's good enough for me .... he gives a lifetime guarantee aswell, gotta be tough stuff.

Actually I was kinda wondering about heat treating and the effect of heat in use...... all that stuff is still a black art to me. I've never used 1040 before. Is it best to use it as forged or heat treat it after making them. If so how does heat from the forge in use affect the temper, can they be dipped in water to cool if they get red. I can't be the only one who gets his tongs jaws occassionally red.

[gearhartironwerks]

youngdylan, on 30 July 2010 - 04:26 AM, said:

If it's good enough for Grant it's good enough for me .... he gives a lifetime guarantee aswell, gotta be tough stuff.

Actually I was kinda wondering about heat treating and the effect of heat in use...... all that stuff is still a black art to me. I've never used 1040 before. Is it best to use it as forged or heat treat it after making them. If so how does heat from the forge in use affect the temper, can they be dipped in water to cool if they get red. I can't be the only one who gets his tongs jaws occassionally red.

I like using 5160 from car springs. They're readily available, are usually free, and require no heat treating. Glad you all like the jig. Thanks!
John

[youngdylan]

gearhartironwerks, on 30 July 2010 - 09:23 AM, said:

I like using 5160 from car springs. They're readily available, are usually free, and require no heat treating. Glad you all like the jig. Thanks!
John

Hi John

Good to thank you personally, that jig is just wonderfully well thought out. Thanks again. Gonna scale it up to use with 20mm bars with 12mm reins for larger tongs. I've got a stack of truck coil springs around 20mm dia bar. That said I'm kinda one for buying in known quality predictable steel these days, usually its not too expensive. I've just ordered 5 bars of 3m x16dia EN8 (1040) at £8 each. Gonna spend next week banging out tongs.

Would it be pushing it to ask about tha bolt tong jig you mentioned.

[Fosterob]

That jig looks wonderful. I will be making one now. Thank you for posting such a good tool.

Rob

[Zsartell]

youngdylan, on 30 July 2010 - 04:18 AM, said:

Anyone got any suggestions for jigging for bolt tongs?

I love this tool.

I would think you could easily use this jig for the basic form and setup another one to form just the bolt holding end. Perhaps you could make the original jig have a detachable piece that once the basic jaw is formed it can be removed and the bolt jig put in it's place. That waw everything else for the jaw section still lines up the same.

- I need to build a power hammer so I can test this....

[gearhartironwerks]

youngdylan, on 30 July 2010 - 09:57 AM, said:

Hi John

Good to thank you personally, that jig is just wonderfully well thought out. Thanks again. Gonna scale it up to use with 20mm bars with 12mm reins for larger tongs. I've got a stack of truck coil springs around 20mm dia bar. That said I'm kinda one for buying in known quality predictable steel these days, usually its not too expensive. I've just ordered 5 bars of 3m x16dia EN8 (1040) at £8 each. Gonna spend next week banging out tongs.

Would it be pushing it to ask about tha bolt tong jig you mentioned.

I'm not too concerned about using new steel for tongs as I don't make them for production/sale...and I'm cheap and love finding junk! Tongs are expendable and when they're toast, I make another pair. Usually I have some extra blanks pounded out ready for adjustment. 5160 is pretty tough and holds the work well. It's hard to ruin 5160 tongs.

The jig for the bolt tongs is made and works well. As my top dies for the Saymak 60kg air hammer do not recede into the tup cylinder wall like the Chinese hammers, I am able to attach the top part of my jig to my dies. I will modify the jig to be used w/o attaching to the top dies to make it more universal, then post a youtube vid. Thanks for asking.

John

[youngdylan]

gearhartironwerks, on 30 July 2010 - 03:05 PM, said:

I'm not too concerned about using new steel for tongs as I don't make them for production/sale...and I'm cheap and love finding junk! Tongs are expendable and when they're toast, I make another pair. Usually I have some extra blanks pounded out ready for adjustment. 5160 is pretty tough and holds the work well. It's hard to ruin 5160 tongs.

The jig for the bolt tongs is made and works well. As my top dies for the Saymak 60kg air hammer do not recede into the tup cylinder wall like the Chinese hammers, I am able to attach the top part of my jig to my dies. I will modify the jig to be used w/o attaching to the top dies to make it more universal, then post a youtube vid. Thanks for asking.

John

John

I'll bang out a load to replace my previous collection of generally s*** tongs I've made in the past. I'll make a stack of blanks (with longer jaws) so when I need a particular tong I'll just pick up a blank and shape the jaws accordingly. I'm not adverse to mig welding bits on to the jaws.

I'll try and find out the English equivalant of 5160 and order some in when I've used up the EN8 I got. What else do you use it for ?

Looking forward to your video and yeah the tup going into the bore is a big drawback to the Anyang. That said my KA75ish Kinyon is ok for that.

[gearhartironwerks]

youngdylan, on 30 July 2010 - 03:24 PM, said:

John

I'll bang out a load to replace my previous collection of generally s*** tongs I've made in the past. I'll make a stack of blanks (with longer jaws) so when I need a particular tong I'll just pick up a blank and shape the jaws accordingly. I'm not adverse to mig welding bits on to the jaws.

I'll try and find out the English equivalant of 5160 and order some in when I've used up the EN8 I got. What else do you use it for ?

Looking forward to your video and yeah the tup going into the bore is a big drawback to the Anyang. That said my KA75ish Kinyon is ok for that.

I just use automotive coil springs. It is my understanding that they are not always 5160. Our local spring manufacturer uses 5160. My feeling is that if they work for car springs, they will probably work for tongs. And, no heat treating is needed. My recycling effort seems better to me than sending steel to China.

JE