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This topic has been addressed before but is very important to the history of blacksmithing here in the states and around the world.


Greenfield Village has lost their blacksmiths because the UAW wanted to unionize them, the village disagreed and let them go. We as blacksmith need to band together again and flood the UAW office with letters to get blacksmiths back in that shop.

I was on the UAW website today and got a little ammo for these letters. On June17, 2010 in Detroit the UAW held a demonstration for good jobs and investments in America. The article also said "The activists will demand that Wall Street pay for the damaging recession it caused by paying its fair share to create the 11 million jobs America needs." If the UAW is concern about 11 million jobs why did they mess with 2-3 jobs?

Write to: Pres. Bob King

UAW Solidarity House
8000 East Jefferson Ave.
Detroit, Mi. 48214

This is only going to work if we flood his office with letters, its not only about 3 individuals jobs its also about the history of our Nation and the trade of blacksmithing.

Thank you for your time, Paul

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Why didn't the village want to unionize the shop. What's the status of the rest of the village workers? I have to admit, I'm pro-union. Living in Virginia, I see how workers are treated when there is no union. I also grew up with stories of what it was like driving trucks before the Teamsters. It wasn't good.


Back story here

Gerald, first let me say how much I admire and respect your enthusiasm for smiting metal.
I talked to you once when you started your "journey".

While I agree with your attitude towards unions in general, exceptions must be made for special circumstances.
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If the three blacksmiths wanted to smith and not join a union, all they had to do was tell the UAW to go away. Only in very few cases are unions doing any good nowadays. Doesn't seem necessary in this case to even rile up the works.

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In my experience a union is usually an active defence against bad/poor management, when this situation arose, the union took on the management role

I find it 'iron'ic that in this situation, what you really need is an effective number of 'strikes'. I am sure you should find the volunteers to make 'pickets' for the place

(Or should this go in blackmith related terms and phrases?)

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If I remember the backstory correctly Ford owns the smithy so the are a union company. So weather the smiths wanted to unionize or not is besides the point, my guess is that the union told Ford that they could not have non union workers because they felt the door opening to abolish union altogether, but that is just guessing on my part.Keep our heritage alive. Write the letters.
Rob

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I cannot say I am pro union. However I find it ironic that there is a group of blacksmiths here trying to LOWER blacksmithing wages.


I don't think this is a matter of trying to lower blacksmiths wages, but being paid appropriately for the job at hand. This is a museum with live demonstrations for the public and I believe is seasonal. It is hard to justfy the $25.00 to $30.00hr. plus benefits and it could be more because I do not know what the prevailing wage is in Michigan now. I personaly have worked for two unions and understand the purpose they serve but at some point common sense must prevail. In Mackinaw City MI there is a blacksmith shop at the fort and the Benjamin House shop on the Island which is run by the parks service. They pay $10.00hr and have smiths working there.
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Mmmmm..... I have real strong feelings about unions... My experience is unions create a "labor against management" environment which ultimately is not good for either party... the workers think they are worth more than they really are... ( my example would be the guys I know who are longshoremen who make 105K a year to drive a forklift and think they should be making more) I would not argue that unions had no place, I think there was a point that standing up to big business and demanding a fair wage was the thing to do... But in todays world the my feeling is if you dont think you make enough working for XXXX or the conditions are bad... go work for someone else.. Good non union companies provide a much better place to work than a unionized shop... Its sad to loose the blacksmiths.... And to me its just another reason to despise the unreasonable and ridiculous union way... Pro union to me means I dont want to work as hard as my peers but I expect more pay regardless....

I know many do not share my views... And I dont feel any need to defend my point of view... If you disagree all I can say is we can still be friends and the world would be a boring place if we all felt exactly the same way

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Could you provide for your family at those wages?


Infact Yes! I have worked for much less over the years and actually applied for the job in Mackinaw City this year and would leave my buisness for 6 months to do so. Having my own buisness does not always mean you are succesful there are lean times and good times. You always don't make the big bucks. :D
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Don't get me wrong I agree with everything Larry just posted above. But I also agree with John B's comment "In my experience a union is usually an active defence against bad/poor management,"


You are right you have to have checks and balances. But at some times common sense has to play a roll.
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I cannot say I am pro union. However I find it ironic that there is a group of blacksmiths here trying to LOWER blacksmithing wages.



I understand what your saying.... But I really feel that if the job is worth $10/hr its worth $10/hr.... And having a union step up and demand they pay you $30/hr just because

If its worth more than $10/hr then they will either not find someone to fill the job or they will pay more... Or if its not worth more than $10/hr too them then the shop will remain closed... The job dictates the value, not the worker
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Infact Yes! I have worked for much less over the years and actually applied for the job in Mackinaw City this year and would leave my buisness for 6 months to do so. Having my own buisness does not always mean you are succesful there are lean times and good times. You always don't make the big bucks. :D


I have as well but to me that does not seem a living wage. I drew NOTHING from my business for a couple of months last summer I understand the lean times.

I am not really trying to argue the unions case here but we do not know all the details about this situation and I am always leery of letter campaigns when many of the facts are unknown.
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I was not trying to make a Pro union argument here. My whole point here was that as blacksmiths we should be arguing that blacksmiths are worth MORE. Not arguing that another blacksmith is making too much.
This is actually one of the things that annoy me about unions. A tradesman who usually has much more responsibility, has spent a lot of time learning a trade, and has often spent a significant amount of money on tools only gets paid slightly more than an unskilled worker.

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I have been a union ironworker for sixteen years. Let me just say that i agree that the job should dictate the wage. There are non union ironworkers doing what i do for less money, and they can and will do a good job. But in specialized areas they can't come close. The other side of the coin is those non union ironworkers are making less, and are getting no benefits. I have destroyed my body doing what i do, and my benefits have enabled me to continue working. The statement that unions are bad is an ignorant statement. Look at our history, unions were necessary, workers get exploited every day. I agree there are some unions that take it too far, but i hate when people who have no idea what they are talking about make generalizations about all unions simply because they can name one that is over paid. If you could demand $200 dollars an hour for your blacksmithing, you would do it in a heartbeat. I have no quarrel with non-union workers, but it doesn't set too well with me when i see labor forces who aren't even citizens of our great country competing for our important jobs, and dragging down prices because they are paid less, and don't need to invest in the proper equipment to work safe. Next thing you know all businesses will be run like wal-mart. We will encourage our workers to take part time jobs, live off welfare, and sub all the dangerous and expensive work to countries that have no laws against exploitation.
Look, i don't think anyone should be forced to use union labor, union labor should speak for itself, if someone can abide by the same rules and do it cheaper, supply a competent product, then by all means let them compete. It just frustrates me to see people who haven't invested the time in the trades, can't work safe and smart, and don't supply a competent product, use labor forces of illegals and don't take care of their workforce to steal jobs from men and women who have and do continually better their abilities.
Longshoremen make great money, and i find it interesting that because they have a strong union who make great money that they are frowned upon. Its quite ironic that the longshoremen spend all their time unloading product from other countries such as china, and loading very little outgoing product from our country. Old time companies like bethlehem steel went belly up because they could no longer compete with other off shore companies cheap labor practices. Take a look at the mortality rate of workers in other countries, its sickening. Do away with unions in this country and see whats left. Every company will outsource their labor.

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Sorry about the rant. In my opinion the big three auto makers should take a hard look at the salaries of their top ceo's. These guys are complaining about the cost of union labor while making gargantuan salaries and running the companies into the ground. In my union we have taken pay cuts due to the lean times we are encountering. More is expected of us as well. I am a Foreman, so i run large scale jobs, and let me tell you it is getting so difficult to hit my bosses expectations because their profit margin is so small. We are held to a super high expectation of safety, quality of work, and service to the customer, way more than in the past, so we can compete in a crappy market. My union brothers and sisters agreed to take a pay cut due to a sign of the times. Do you think the companies executives have taken a pay cut? Of course not. Why? Because they made a deal when they signed on, to be paid very well. But to meet their bottom line, they ask the unions to take pay cuts so they can keep their profit margin.

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Boy I guess I got alot of people riled. My post is not about the union or what blacksmiths get payed at the village its about BLACKSMITHING. As far as pay goes if they don't like it don't work there. Do you lower your bid because the custemor doesn't like it, the way I look at it if you do your charging to much to begain with. I have been a union member as a cabinetmaker and non-union as a carpenter, I had better benifits as non-union carpenter. I know some of you don't want to write because all the facts may not be there and I probable jump the gun so tomorrow I will call the village and get the info from the horses mouth. Thanks for all the responses.

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Hey rthibeau,
Take a look at who is behind www.unionfacts.com. Rick Berman is a big business advocate, he works with big tobacco among others and creates fronts which look like non-profit organizations. He is basically the workingmans worst nightmare. Unionfacts.cpm is a sham site created so the workingman will help big business question unions so big business can make more money exploiting workers. Look up Berman, its his site. Sorry, i usually don't get embroiled in these discussions, but it makes me sick to hear people trample unions. Most blacksmiths are small independent businesses which would have nothing to gain by unionization. If someone exploits you , you just decide not to do business with them again. When you are working for a company with a few thousand employees, and they try to exploit you, you tend to appreciate having an advocate.

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I find it funny, reading a statement of: Lets all join together and send in this petition to state our rights to NOT want to join together. LOL sorry but its a bit contradictory isn't it?

In fact, most unions are the very people that make up its membership We as members make the choices to work or not to work, I like working and making money, I would rather take a pay cut than a lay off. also we DO remove people that wont pull their own weight. Also we have a "fire at will" policy, and if a member is removed for cause 2x in a year, there is a hearing with the union officers, 3x and most members are gone for being dead weight.

Remember there was NO safety laws before unions. remember the company towns and company scripts for payment ? a worker being told to do this job, if its safe or not, and when they get hurt and lose am arm so they cant work, as a direct result of the dangerous equipment, are thrown out like the trash?

Union Electrician,
IBEW lu 305

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