90 replies to this topic

[Nazelhammers]

I apologize if I’ve insulted anyone by using the term Master. It is by no means that I think I’m better than anyone else. My roots are firmly planted from where I’ve come from. I’ve been at this longer than I’d like to admit. The term master is a common term used in the world I come from and how I was taught as a journeyman. I still have close contact with my past master who helped me get to where I am today as a blacksmith. I worked for my master doing “old school” reproduction colonial hardware making nails in a coal forge and I was paid by the piece. For some of the smaller nails I made I was only paid nine cents each. If I made a mistake I didn’t get paid and if I got really good at it I could make $7.00 or $8.00 an hour. Talk about something that would kick you in the butt. I really couldn’t keep up that pace and I’d average out at about $4.75 to $5.00 an hour but every once in a while I’d test myself. Today I have no desire to make one nail for $10.00 each. I hated it but my master always said “it's good practice”. He never stood over me watching what I was doing. He’d just count the nails at the end of the day. When I’d make a mistake and ask a question on how to forge nails, he’d say “I don’t care if you do them with your teeth. I’ll show you one more time. He'd knock one out and say "I want them to look like this.” You have to understand…. when I worked for this guy, I respected him but I didn’t really like him. I paid rent while lived in his mud filled walls tenet house on his farm in Bucks County, PA with my first newborn son and wife. He was away fair and he even gave me his old truck to drive while I was paying him for it. The farm I lived on was not too far from where Washington crossed the Delaware. I love our local history. It’s interesting to know when early settlers moved west they’d burn down their house and barn to retrieve the nails. There is a national park on the Delaware River where Washington camped the night of his attack on Trenton. Part of the park also had a blacksmith shop that has since burned down. They can't afford to rebuild it due to budget cost. I worked in that shop with a friend and it was one of my best experiences first starting out as a blacksmith. Washington as a young journeyman also worked as blacksmith. Let’s see one of our modern day presidents who could ever say they worked for a hard day’s wages. Now that I no longer work for a master and I have my own shop I’ve achieved the goal as being my own master and I even drive my own truck. I have nothing but admiration for the master who educated me on how the world turn. I feel bad because he is a Vietnam Vet with health issues. I have what I feel is a close relationship with him and he is more open to share his experiences with me while he was in Vietnam. I have an interest in Vietnam because my brother was an assault helicopter door gunner KIA in 1969. I’ll agree the computer and internet is a powerful tool. Just recently, via the internet I made contact with men of the company my brother served with. The pilot who was flying the helicopter the day my brother was killed has recently died. I’m having private correspondence with the widow of the pilot who lives in LA. When I first met my master I knew he was a Vet. There would have been no way I would have pressed him or expected him to share with me what he must have gone through. Our relationship and trust built to the point it is at today. I feel privileged he is willing to share with me his experiences and he was willing to take me in at the time to show me what he learned as a self-taught man. He is the godfather of my first born son and although he’s never really been big part of his life, I know he would do anything for him if asked. I think what he’d like to do is bring my oldest son into his shop and kick his butt but my son knows better than I did and he has no desire to be a blacksmith. It turns out my master was right - it was good practice because everything after making hand forged nails for as little as $5.00 an hour is easy.

Thank you to this forum for the opportunity to up right the ship. The truth is the truth, nothing more and nothing less..... I can say this much with confidence, I’ve worked hard to have a lot more satisfied customers than not, if that matters to anyone other than me.

Perhaps an explanation is due if anyone cares to read further. I've aligned myself with the help I need from my wife and associate. My business is my life and when it’s questioned, I take issue. I have to have something to focus on and my focus is on what I do. Our original price for a replacement 3B ram of $750.00 was to the person I sold one of my hammers to because I felt bad and I was only trying to help my customer out during a bad time. When I sold my hammer to my customer, it was sold for what I thought was a fair price due to condition. I made it clear the terms where as is, where is, with no warranty expressed or implied. When I bought the hammer, I had no intentions on selling it until we fixed it. The hammer was running and I’ll admit it needed help but there was lots of room for profit in it for us fixed rather than sold as is. After the ram broke, I tried to convince the owner at that time not to give up on the hammer because it can be fixed. It’s not as bad as it seems and I reminded him of its value fixed in good running condition. He asked me if I’d be interested in the hammer but I didn’t feel comfortable even contemplating making him an offer because he was down on his luck. While all this was taking place, I was in the process of bringing on a new associate to help me. I never heard anything back about the hammer until I was approached again by the new owner. By that time, I figured any pervious arrangements to help the prior owner where null and void. I had taken on my helper and I asked him what he thought a replacement ram would cost to make if we sold the one we had in stock. It was only fair to bring my helper into the mix at that point because he now had a controlling interest in what I did. His reply was a $2,000.00 is a bargain. With that price I still offered to help the new owner but he declined, so we parted our ways with what I thought was no hard feelings until all this took place over the past week.

Currently we are working on a 4 sided light-duty ram for a 2B and our customer has $3,890.00 so far into manufacturing costs and we still have to make them thier ram guide housing and guide plates. By no means are we doing the entire job with the machiner we have. We know to whom to go to, to get the job done right and I myself cannot take full credit for what we do.

[HWooldridge]

I doubt anyone took offense at the term "Master" - or at least they shouldn't have, although the word might be pejorative in some circles.

It's good that you had someone to apprentice under when you were a lad; that custom has more or less disappeared in America these days. I think we also understand this is your business and you are protective of your income - absolutely nothing wrong with that belief. In addition, open and honest communication always wins out when conducted in the spirit of cooperative sharing.

BTW, I've had a 100lb Beaudry for almost 25 years and it's a great hammer. So far, it has never needed any spare parts I couldn't make here but nice to know where to look if I ever do.

Thanks for posting - hope to see more from you in the future

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

If the subject of that hammer comes up again I'm gonna puke. Why do you think those other threads were locked. Drop it, forget about it, how many times are you going to say "that's all I've got to say?

[Nazelhammers]

If you'er trying to turn this into a puking contest. Don't puke this way because I'll puke back harder....

[arftist]

Hello, Nazelhammer, welcome to IFI.
Sorry the welcoming commitee isn't all one might expect.
I missed the controversy, thank goodness.
I have enjoyed reading your posts and think you would be a good addition here.
I too met with some resistance when I first started posting here, I am not sure why.
Perhaps those same folks still don't like me, they just ignore me, I don't know.
I do know that my responces have helped am few folks, but I post here for myself anyhow.
I know that others sometimes rub me the wrong way too, but after a time I come to apreciate them.
I hope you will stick through the B.S.

[youngdylan]

So come on then, that hammer is so yesterday, join in the spirit of this forum and start spreading some of the knowledge you've learn't as a master or any other type of blacksmith. I'm sure you've got lots of tips, and tricks of the trade and experience we'd love to hear. Don't want to keep all that valuable knowledge to your self do you?

[SoCal Dave]

Nazelhammers: You kind of had me on your side until the last comment by you about puking. Give it up, let it go, get over it, move on. But, I see you can't do that by your long dissertation of your side of the story. There's a time to not say anything more.

[Danger Dillon]

Answer to the question: MY WIFE!

[youngdylan]

Danger Dillon, on 14 March 2010 - 01:34 PM, said:

Answer to the question: MY WIFE!

????????

[Danger Dillon]

Who's your master....?

[youngdylan]

Danger Dillon, on 14 March 2010 - 01:39 PM, said:

Who's your master....?

how do you guys say it........doh!

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

Those of us who are not master just wonder how you got that way. All I get from the the above is you need to make nails. Or your earlier explanation that you own the shop. I have owned my own shop for nearly 40 years and wouldn't dream of calling myself a master blacksmith unless that title was bestowed on me by my peers. I just tend to laugh at those who declare themselves "master" . You're a master by your work, not by saying so. Just my view.

[monstermetal]

Hey guys let's give Bruce a chance.  Let's forget about the past and let his current actions speak for who he is.   I would like nothing more to be proven wrong.   My experience is what it is, I think the fact that Bruce is here and participating is outstanding.  When I feel challenged or threatened I bare my teeth and ready for a fight and I think that's what happened earlier.   I can forget and forgive.  I don't see how it can do anyone any good to be at odds over such trivial matters.      I have bad days, I say things I shouldn't. I stick my foot in my mouth and I p%#$ people off.    Bruce if you want to talk call me, you have my number.  If you don't hey that's fine too.  Either way let's just agree to put it in the past.   I'd like to see you stay Bruce.  I'd also like nothing more than to say you changed my mind and that I think your a stand up guy who goes out of his way to help a fellow smith    

[youngdylan]

We've got a "guild" this side of the pond called the "Guild of Master Craftsmen".

http://www.guildmc.c...rade/The-Guild/

How do get to be a member? 5 references and pay them a fee.

Phooosh, Ping, tddaaaa, Bob's your Uncle, suddenly you're a master craftsmen. Hey, you even get a special logo you can put on all your business literature telling everyone you're a master craftsman.

Funnily enough, I don't want to join.

[nuge]

The whole master thing is similar to the "artist" title. Thats not for the maker to decide, only the audience. Best not to utter the word.

[youngdylan]

nuge, on 14 March 2010 - 02:57 PM, said:

The whole master thing is similar to the "artist" title. Thats not for the maker to decide, only the audience. Best not to utter the word.

gotta agree with that, I've also got trouble with the term "Artist Blacksmith", I'm loathe to call myself a blacksmith, let alone an artist. If I have to use the "B" word it's as a "Contemporary Blacksmith"

[Mainely,Bob]

First,you ASKED to be labeled a "full blooded reprobate",there Captain.
Second,if you`re gonna hire me out to be anybody`s uncle and bestow titles and special logos then what`s my cut?
Don`t I get a ring or a funny hat or something?At least tell me I get to drive around in a bulletproof "Bobmobile"(with a gin pole and winch on the front)

PS-I liked the sound effects though.

[kasper]

i perfer mentor

[youngdylan]

Mainely,Bob, on 14 March 2010 - 03:12 PM, said:

First,you ASKED to be labeled a "full blooded reprobate",there Captain.
Second,if you`re gonna hire me out to be anybody`s uncle and bestow titles and special logos then what`s my cut?
Don`t I get a ring or a funny hat or something?At least tell me I get to drive around in a bulletproof "Bobmobile"(with a gin pole and winch on the front)

PS-I liked the sound effects though.

I was going to use the word mainly, as in mostly, in another post but held back out of deference

kasper, on 14 March 2010 - 03:35 PM, said:

i perfer mentor

Spot on there

[Timothy Miller]

I would love it if there were a masters test. I would practice and learn all of the skills and keep doing it until I passed. I would love to have that title but I would never call my self that. I do have a friend who is 82 and calls him self a master blacksmith. To be frank I am a better smith than him. But that's what he calls himself. I would never question him because he is like family to me a third grandfather perhaps. I personally think anybody can be an artist if they want to be. All you need to do is make art you don't even need to be good. Its kind of like if you are cooking your a cook. When I see some one I really admire some one who moves me I call them a "true artist" Buts that's my own personal term.