50 replies to this topic

[David Browne]

youngdylan, on 25 March 2010 - 11:37 AM, said:

Now that is pretty cool. From the pictures is does look like it will wipe off. I really wanna have a go a using cor-ten now, guess this will make is easier to "sell" the idea of a "rusty gate" to customers. Kinda the "anti stainless steel"

Is it available in a good choice of sections or is it mainly plate. How does it compare cost wise to "normal" steel

Over here we've got quite a famous piece of sculpture made from cor-ten that gets a lot of publicity; "The Angel of the North"

Cool rust Angel. Like Danger said earlier, rust is my favorite color too, although I have found it VERY difficult sell rust to a customer. In the consumer world, rust is a four letter word and it takes some educating on our part to get them to even consider it as an option. I have stopped referring to it as a rust finish and have taken up "brown patina". It seems to soften the sting a bit, even though later on I will tell them the brown color comes from rust. The biggest deterrent to rust finishes is the proposition of future maintenance (re-sealing when the rust eventually breaks through). In my mind, it is much easier to apply a coat of wax once a year, rather than pull the entire railing out and sandblast/re-coat when the paint fails in 3 to 5. Cor-ten may help with this aspect. In nearly ten years of trying to peddle rust finishes to customers, I have been successful only three times prior to this job. Two were interior stair cases (waxed), and one was for exterior gates and fencing (also heavily waxed). In fact, on one of the railing jobs, I initially suggested a rust finish to the client during the design process. She gave me a horrified look and said "oh no, I don't want rust, I want a blackened patina". I brought her a black patina sample the following week (along with a "brown patina" sample) and she said, "I really like this brown one"...

Where I am on the West Coast, A588 is commonly available in plate, but I am able to order all structurals (angle, channel and I-beam) as well as a good selection of rounds (up to 3") and flats. Square seems to be least available- only 1/2, 3/4 and 1" from what I could find.

As for forging the stuff, I haven't tried it yet, but I gave a couple cut-offs to a friend who teaches intermediate blacksmithing here locally. She was anxious to see how it forged and ran it through her coal forge. She said it forged wonderfully and forge welded even better (more like pure iron). Alloying elements include carbon, copper, sulfur, manganese, phosphorus, and chromium. I would like to hear from someone more expert on the subject whether there are toxicity issues when forging this particular alloy... It is expensive. Roughly 2 to 3 times the cost of mild steel in plate, and 3-4 times the cost of mild steel in structural shapes. I did not price out rounds, solids or squares.
-DB

[Bentiron1946]

Dave, I think your gates are great, nice job on bending that plate.
My first thought about the Angle of the North was about the bending moment on the wings in a heavy wind, must be a good foundation under that sucker.

[David Browne]

Bentiron1946, on 25 March 2010 - 06:50 PM, said:

My first thought about the Angle of the North was about the bending moment on the wings in a heavy wind, must be a good foundation under that sucker.

Seriously! All those ribs add structure, but they look like they catch a lot more wind, too! A monster foundation, I'm sure...Pretty cool piece, though.

[youngdylan]

David Browne, on 25 March 2010 - 04:05 PM, said:

Cool rust Angel. Like Danger said earlier, rust is my favorite color too, although I have found it VERY difficult sell rust to a customer. In the consumer world, rust is a four letter word and it takes some educating on our part to get them to even consider it as an option. I have stopped referring to it as a rust finish and have taken up "brown patina". It seems to soften the sting a bit, even though later on I will tell them the brown color comes from rust. The biggest deterrent to rust finishes is the proposition of future maintenance (re-sealing when the rust eventually breaks through). In my mind, it is much easier to apply a coat of wax once a year, rather than pull the entire railing out and sandblast/re-coat when the paint fails in 3 to 5. Cor-ten may help with this aspect. In nearly ten years of trying to peddle rust finishes to customers, I have been successful only three times prior to this job. Two were interior stair cases (waxed), and one was for exterior gates and fencing (also heavily waxed). In fact, on one of the railing jobs, I initially suggested a rust finish to the client during the design process. She gave me a horrified look and said "oh no, I don't want rust, I want a blackened patina". I brought her a black patina sample the following week (along with a "brown patina" sample) and she said, "I really like this brown one"...

Where I am on the West Coast, A588 is commonly available in plate, but I am able to order all structurals (angle, channel and I-beam) as well as a good selection of rounds (up to 3") and flats. Square seems to be least available- only 1/2, 3/4 and 1" from what I could find.

As for forging the stuff, I haven't tried it yet, but I gave a couple cut-offs to a friend who teaches intermediate blacksmithing here locally. She was anxious to see how it forged and ran it through her coal forge. She said it forged wonderfully and forge welded even better (more like pure iron). Alloying elements include carbon, copper, sulfur, manganese, phosphorus, and chromium. I would like to hear from someone more expert on the subject whether there are toxicity issues when forging this particular alloy... It is expensive. Roughly 2 to 3 times the cost of mild steel in plate, and 3-4 times the cost of mild steel in structural shapes. I did not price out rounds, solids or squares.
-DB

David

Thanks for the information; much appreciated. Three times is three time more than I have! I guess England is a awfull lot wetter than West Coast US. I once nearly very nearly puruaded a customer to go for a rusty gate using very large sections of "normal " steel. They got cold feet in the end.

Like a lot of smiths I'm no fan of paint and am always trying to steer customers to bronze and/or electropolished stainless steel. I guess I'll do some experimenting with corten nand make a small sample gate to show them. As you say the word "rust" really is a four letter word.

Gates or stair railings in anodized titanium anyone?????

[Danger Dillon]

YD....

Paa pa paa paa pa pa paa pa aa pa Waaaaaaaa paaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!

Sorry david,

[youngdylan]

Danger Dillon, on 26 March 2010 - 06:26 AM, said:

YD....

Paa pa paa paa pa pa paa pa aa pa Waaaaaaaa paaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!

Sorry david,

sound of Ti being forged?

[David Browne]

youngdylan, on 26 March 2010 - 01:47 PM, said:

sound of Ti being forged?

YD,
It took me a bit to figure this one out too, but I think it's the sound of his motorcycle taking off on a cross country trip without you.
-DB

[rawtiron]

Awesome work David!!! Thanks for all of the photos and info about it.
Jason

[Senft]

Fantastic work!! Thanks for sharing.

[Bryce Masuk]

If I remeber right corten is usually mandatory for shipping containers in most cases

It also is used on ships in some cases im pretty sure you can find some scrap of it somewhere if needed
its pretty strong stuff as far as i know

david, your gates turned out great I pictured them looking different but my mind takes off on its own

now your off on the next project

maybe blacksmiths should advertise that they will throw in free electricity with the patina,

I have seen scientists in canada playing with metal and producing many colours from different metals pink i think from brass and a blue color from iron were the most interesting to me

[Steeler]

Outstanding design and execution David! Thanks for sharing. The photos really stir my imagination and expand the limits of my preconceived ideas of possibilities in metal. Also, I can see that I will need a layout/assembly table like the one in your photos. Thanks again!