61 replies to this topic

[clinton]

I just ordered a piece of 4140 to make some new dies for my commonsense powerhammer the dies that came with the hammer are quite useless for what I want to forge, I plan on making a set of combination dies, a fuller on one half and flat on the other side. The old dies have a groove on the bottom cut straight through; can any one tell me why this is there? It is about 3/4 inch wide and 1/2 inch deep. I will be having the dove tail machined in so it should not be a problem to add this groove if it is needed. here is a picture of it and a shot of the dovetail profile
 DSCN2997.JPG   178.13K   172 downloads  DSCN2996.JPG   154.88K   161 downloads

[Timothy Miller]

The groove could be there to forge down stock to a certain size like permanent swage. I would recommended that you make flat dies for the hammer and forgo the combination dies. You can always make a large diameter set of spring fullers that could be bolted to the bottom die and quickly changed out. Flat dies are much more usefull in a power hammer. I strongly recomend that you buy a copy of cliftion ralph's power hammer DVD. It wil change your understanding of what a power hammer is really capable of. You could a also grind or mill off the top of the old dies. If I am not mistaken the common sence hammer has an adjustable stroke. The loss of die hight may not be a problem.

[arftist]

Not trying to start the usual controversy here, but what do you have against a combo flat and fullering die? You still get the flat die, and I find the fullering side equally useful on my power hammer. I think I have seen the video mentioned, but don't see how that precludes a combo die. Just to be clear, I also have flat dies, but the majority of the time, I do what I need with the combo setup.

[Timothy Miller]

arftist, on 13 March 2010 - 11:49 AM, said:

Not trying to start the usual controversy here, but what do you have against a combo flat and fullering die? You still get the flat die, and I find the fullering side equally useful on my power hammer. I think I have seen the video mentioned, but don't see how that precludes a combo die. Just to be clear, I also have flat dies, but the majority of the time, I do what I need with the combo setup.

A flat die is pretty much a universal die. You can use any kind of tooling you want because you have the space to use it. With combo dies the center of your dies becomes inaccessible. That is the best part of your dies. I like to have wide flat dies you can use fullers for drawing or change out the dies. You can punch holes cut profiles with shaped cutters the list goes on and on. As time has gone on I use drawing dies less and less. The Clifton Ralph dvd is 12 hours long. It contains basically a working life's worth of knowledge and experience I cant over state how much I have learned from it. Drawing out is just a small part of what a power hammer can do.

[youngdylan]

clinton, on 13 March 2010 - 09:45 AM, said:

I just ordered a piece of 4140 to make some new dies for my commonsense powerhammer the dies that came with the hammer are quite useless for what I want to forge, I plan on making a set of combination dies, a fuller on one half and flat on the other side. The old dies have a groove on the bottom cut straight through; can any one tell me why this is there? It is about 3/4 inch wide and 1/2 inch deep. I will be having the dove tail machined in so it should not be a problem to add this groove if it is needed. here is a picture of it and a shot of the dovetail profile
DSCN2997.JPG DSCN2996.JPG

Clinton

The groove is on the underside of the die right?

If so, it's to keep the top or bottom dies from moving sideways when driving the wedges in. There should be holes in the tup and sow block that "pins" fit into and these grooves locate with these pins. It's very useful when fitting any dies but especially combination dies where misalignment is more of a problem. It keeps the dies lining up side to side AND fore and aft.

It's useful when first wedging up the dies and will also stop any tendancy of the dies to drift sideways if the dies have a large sideways components to the forces they recieve/apply.

If there are no holes in your tup/ sow block, it could be that the dies are adapted from another hammer. My Anyang 40kg uses these pins and they are very useful

[youngdylan]

southshoresmith, on 13 March 2010 - 12:04 PM, said:

The Clifton Ralph dvd is 12 hours long. It contains basically a working life's worth of knowledge and experience I cant over state how much I have learned from it.

South

What's this Clifton Ralph dvd. Sounds like its worth a look. Where can I get one. UK based but guess that wont be a problem

[Timothy Miller]

youngdylan, on 13 March 2010 - 12:08 PM, said:

Clinton

The groove is on the underside of the die right?

If so, it's to keep the top or bottom dies from moving sideways when driving the wedges in. There should be holes in the tup and sow block that "pins" fit into and these grooves locate with these pins. It's very useful when fitting any dies but especially combination dies where misalignment is more of a problem. It keeps the dies lining up side to side AND fore and aft.

It's useful when first wedging up the dies and will also stop any tendancy of the dies to drift sideways if the dies have a large sideways components to the forces they recieve/apply.

If there are no holes in your tup/ sow block, it could be that the dies are adapted from another hammer. My Anyang 40kg uses these pins and they are very useful

I think its on the top but I could be wrong. Ill take a look and see if i have his contact info it was $200 US last time I looked.

[youngdylan]

southshoresmith, on 13 March 2010 - 01:12 PM, said:

I think its on the top but I could be wrong. Ill take a look and see if i have his contact info it was $200 US last time I looked.

South

Look at the radius at he top of the cross section view (right photo) then look where at the radius is on the plan view (left photo) ..... kinda makes me think it's on the underneath.

I'll try to remember to take some photos of the pin set up on my Anyang. You run a SayMak don't you? does this have these pins?

[Timothy Miller]

youngdylan, on 13 March 2010 - 01:28 PM, said:

South

Look at the radius at he top of the cross section view (right photo) then look where at the radius is on the plan view (left photo) ..... kinda makes me think it's on the underneath.

I'll try to remember to take some photos of the pin set up on my Anyang. You run a SayMak don't you? does this have these pins?

Your right. I ran a Fairbanks 75# for years with flat dies like that. I loved that hammer until a got my say-mak.

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

My favorite "combo" dies were the ones that were in my 200lb (90Kg for Youngdylan) Chambersburg when I got it. One end of the dies had about an 1/8 inch (3mm) radius and the other end had a 1/2 inch (12-13mm) radius. I still had a goodly flat area for tool work and I could draw like a Psychobabblonian!

[youngdylan]

Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver, on 13 March 2010 - 04:00 PM, said:

My favorite "combo" dies were the ones that were in my 200lb (90Kg for Youngdylan) Chambersburg when I got it. One end of the dies had about an 1/8 inch (3mm) radius and the other end had a 1/2 inch (12-13mm) radius. I still had a goodly flat area for tool work and I could draw like a Psychobabblonian!

Hey, and I used to respect your precision engineering skills 90.909 kg if you please.

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

What's .909Kg between friends, eh?

Hey Phycho, get back to work!

[youngdylan]

Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver, on 13 March 2010 - 04:22 PM, said:

What's .909Kg between friends, eh?

Hey Phycho, get back to work!

oh I'd say round about 1pound 15ounces 15drams and 26grains

real good advert for the "convenience" of the imperial system that there grain; 1/7000th of a pounds. WTF!

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

OK, how about 14.285 714 286 stone?

[Timothy Miller]

Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver, on 13 March 2010 - 04:00 PM, said:

My favorite "combo" dies were the ones that were in my 200lb (90Kg for Youngdylan) Chambersburg when I got it. One end of the dies had about an 1/8 inch (3mm) radius and the other end had a 1/2 inch (12-13mm) radius. I still had a goodly flat area for tool work and I could draw like a Psychobabblonian!

Would you want your only hammer to have combo dies in it as the default die set. because I think that is what he wants to do. If I had a two or more hammers I would not mind having a dedicated hammer with combo or drawing dies. but if you only have one hammer I feel that it should have flat dies in it as the default set. They are the most versatal kind of dies and you can still draw with then. You can use a hand held fuller/flatter tool for smoothing to take out the lines put in by the die edge.

[youngdylan]

Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver, on 13 March 2010 - 05:51 PM, said:

OK, how about 14.285 714 286 stone?

Just seen some picture of your workshop. Think I might have to start taking you seriously!

The "complete metalsmith" springs to mind. Did I miss the powerhammer or does the screw press do for that.

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

youngdylan, on 13 March 2010 - 08:30 PM, said:

Just seen some picture of your workshop. Think I might have to start taking you seriously!

Yeah, like that'll happen!

Quote

The "complete metalsmith" springs to mind. Did I miss the powerhammer or does the screw press do for that.

We don' got no power hammer, We don' need no stinking power hammer!

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

southshoresmith, on 13 March 2010 - 06:37 PM, said:

Would you want your only hammer to have combo dies in it as the default die set. because I think that is what he wants to do. If I had a two or more hammers I would not mind having a dedicated hammer with combo or drawing dies. but if you only have one hammer I feel that it should have flat dies in it as the default set. They are the most versatal kind of dies and you can still draw with then. You can use a hand held fuller/flatter tool for smoothing to take out the lines put in by the die edge.

As I tried to describe, these were flat dies, just had a little different radius on one end.

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

Actually I have a 60lb (27.27272727Kg) Little Giant that does everything I need to do.

Hey Doo Wop: ya seen my YouTube channel?
You can click on "more from Nakedanvil" too.

If you want to change the title under your avatar, click on your name in the top right of the page, choose "my profile" then "edit profile" then scroll down to "profile information" and change it.

[jason0012]

My only hammer at the moment is a 100# bradley upright. I have about 6 pairs of dies, but the big die is a 3x8 combo die. It has 6 inches of flat , so the center is still there. I do tend to favor the 4x7 flat dies though- Cliftons influence I'm sure. the combo die is really nice on some jobs though. As fast as the Bradley runs( about 400 bpm) that fuller side can move a LOT of steel -quick! the downside I have seen with the combo die is that they tend to work loose far worse than the flat dies. Even with a center pin working out on the end tends to pop the keys loose.