34 replies to this topic

[Fe-Wood]

I've been considering repairing my Peter Wright anvils because the edges are very rough from previous owner abuse. I found an article "Anvil Repair By Robb Gunter". Is his explanation good? What about the filler rod he suggests?
Any pointers would be helpful. I'm in no hurry to do the repairs but I do want to do them when I feel I have enough good information to do it. After watching Brain B. do his tong demo, I realize I need sharper edges.
Thanks everybody

© Robb Gunter and Karl Schuler
The Forgery School of Blacksmithing

This process works well on wrought iron base anvils and cast iron base anvils with a good tool steel top. It was developed with the help of several metallurgists and welding engineers at Sandia National Laboratories.

Grind all surfaces to be welded. Expose good, clean material. Grind through all folds or fractured chips. Chamfer any holes or severe depressions in preparation for welding. Preheat a wrought iron base anvil to 400 degrees and a cast iron base anvil to 450 degrees. The temperature can be verified with a Tempil Stick crayon available at Your welding supply store, which melts at a given temperature. (i.e., 350 degrees, 400 degrees, 450 degrees. A propane-fired weed burner works well to preheat the anvil. A wood fire call also be used if care is taken to wire brush off all carbon and smoke deposits before welding. Be careful to not overheat the anvil, particularly the heel and hardy hole area, as it's a thin- ner cross-section and heats faster than the more massive parts.

What You'll Need
If your anvil has a wrought iron base and the damaged area goes through the tool plate so that You have to begin the repair by welding to the wrought base material, use Stoody 2110 (or equal) 3/16" rod (DC reverse works best; however, it will run AC); Unlimited passes. Expect 45 Rockwell C as welded. When you can finish building up the repair area in no more than three passes (or layers thick), use Stoody 1105 (or equal) 1/8" rod (DC reverse, or AC); expect 50 to 52 Rockwell C as welded, which should be consistent with the original hardness of the tool plate. The Stoody 1105 is a particularly good match for the W-1 tool steel tops of most anvils and is designed to be impact resistant.

When welding to a cast iron base anvil and on to the cast iron base, a layer of NI rod (high nickel) must be Put down first. Build Lip over the NI rod with Stoody 2110 (or equal); Unlimited passes (DC reverse); expect 45 Rockwell as welded. The last three passes (or layers thick), use Stoody 1105 (or equal) 1/8" rod (DC reverse); expect 50 to 52 Rockwell C as welded if you don't exceed three passes thick. Cast steel anvils repair well using the combination of the Stoody 2110 and the Stoody 1105 (last three passes).

Repair to the Horn
Repair to the horn of a wrought iron base anvil can be accomplished with 6010 welding rod as needed. If the point of the horn is blunted or slightly broken off, we usually Put the end of the horn in a coal forge, heat it to bright orange and forge it out to the desired shape using a 12-lb. sledge to back it up and a 2-lb. rounding hammer on top. Repairs to the horn of cast iron anvils is usually done by welding with the NI rod and grinding.

If the area around the hardy hole or pritchel hole needs repair, weld using the above detailed process; however, inserting a chill (or form) made of 1/16" sheet copper into the respective hole before welding will save you a lot of grinding and filing to true up the hole.

These hard surfacing rods used here to repair anvils are quite gravity sensitive during the welding process. If you can lean the anvil at 445 degrees against a cinder block while welding on the edges, you will have more of the somewhat expensive welding rod on the anvil and less on the floor.

After all welding repair is complete and you are sure that there is sufficient buildup to allow for grinding to the desired finish (check with a straightedge), post heat back to 400 degrees or verify with the Tempil Stick that the anvil is still that hot from welding. Pack the anvil in vermiculite (crushed mica), available at most nurseries, to allow it to slow cool for a minimum of eight hours. This will minimize the potential for stress cracking from welding.

Obtaining the Desired Finish
Grind the anvil to the desired finish. We start the grinding process with a 24-grit cup stone on a large body grinder It is quite aggressive at quickly removing metal. Be careful to keep it running flat (sparks coming off both sides of the cup stone). Continue the grinding process using flex back metal sanding discs, starting with 24 grit and working down to 240 grit, in five or six steps. Until now, all edges should be kept sharp and square. With 100 grit or finer sanding disc, radius the edges to your desired shapes. Near the anvil step the radii are typically ground to a 3/16" or 1/4" radius and tapering to nearly no radius at the heel of the anvil. The edge of the step and the heel are usually left rather sharp and only broken with a file. A final polish call be done with a Scotch Brite disc and you can usually see your face in the anvil top.

This anvil restoration process has been used on several hundred anvils around the country with great success.


Robb Gunter graciously provided IForgeIron permission to use this article.
Glenn

[Glenn]

© Robb Gunter and Karl Schuler
The Forgery School of Blacksmithing

As this is copyrighted material I contacted Robb Gunter and he has graciously provided IForgeIron permission to use this article.
Thank You Mr. Gunter

[Dave Parker]

Excellent article, my own anvil has rounded sides but I just use a swage when I need a corner to work on. That said, if it ever needs repaired I will definitely refer back to this article.

[clinton]

yep sounds good to me get the anvil preped and gather the materials and i can shoot up there and help you i can bring an engine drive welder also no prob (dont remember seeing a stick welder in your shop)

[Robb Gunter]

If you follow the process detailed in the article it works very well. As of this point I have restored 86 anvils using this process with complete success. The rods suggested were chosen for not only their impact resistance and ability to interface with the base material as well as the W - 1 tool steel top, but also to produce a surface that came out the correct hardness as welded.
Robb Gunter

[Fe-Wood]

Ok, Thanks everyone! Especially Robb Gunter for giving permission to IFI to keep this article up and sharing it with us. Sorry if I stepped out of line there Robb.

Glenn, Thank you for checking with Robb about that.


Clinton- My miller syncrowave has some leads but I never use them... I'm figuring it should work well for this.
If you feel like making the trip, I'll supply the beer We have Turkeys here abouts too.

I guess I better get a couple pounds of rod to practice with before I do the real deal Its been a while....

I'll try and do a photo documentary on it.

[Mainely,Bob]

"Get a couple pounds of rod to practice with"?
Be prepared for sticker shock!Stoody rods do NOT come cheap.BTW-last time I checked you could get some of them in TIG filler too,same astronomical pricing.I think Cronatron learned it from Stoody.

[ThomasPowers]

I've used and had anvils repaired using this process and have been quite pleased indeed with them.

Mr Gunter's background and experience are well known---I first met him when he demo'd at a Quad State when it was still held at Emmert Studebaker's place back in the '90's and now live in the same state with him and get to enjoy his demonstrations on a regular basis; I believe he is demonstrating at the June SWABA meeting and I would encourage eveyone who can to try to make it there!

Thomas Powers
President SWABA

[clinton]

The miller sychrowave will do nicely, as will the beer, I have to go check on a job today but this guy seems to be giving me a runaround. I will come up there and weld it for you I have lots of experience at stick welding, also I have temp sticks so don't worry about that. See if you can get the stoody rod it looks like stoodite 21 is what Robb is referring to https://www.mytherma...tabName=Manuals
Well let me know when you get it together and I can shoot up there for a couple of days, oh I will check my rod oven today also there is all kinds of weird stuff in there lots of chrome molly rod I know

[Fe-Wood]

Mainely,Bob, on 08 March 2010 - 08:27 AM, said:

"Get a couple pounds of rod to practice with"?
Be prepared for sticker shock!Stoody rods do NOT come cheap.BTW-last time I checked you could get some of them in TIG filler too,same astronomical pricing.I think Cronatron learned it from Stoody.

Sticker shock ain't the word for it!!!!! Over $600.00 for 10 pounds in my initial web search-

But I was refering to "cheep" rod to practice with... to get my legs back

[Mainely,Bob]

Thought that might get your attention.
You might want to think about using some of the tricks we used to use when welding an edge to avoid drop off of the "golden rod".We used graphite(from the presses) or carbon bars(from the electric shop clamped to the edge to hold the weld puddle in place.One guy even used firebrick when he couldn`t find any extra of what we usually used floating around.
We used to do a lot with the graphite rod especially when using nickel welding rod to build back destroyed ears on large cast iron gearboxes.Round graphite rod where the bolt goes,weld around rod,drive rod out when done and cool,insert bolt and tighten,switch on,back to work.
Yet another non-standard seat of the pants weld repair brought to you by Hack Manufacturing(some assembly required,batteries not included).

[Thomas Dean]

Good points Bob. One other "trick" is to use copper along the edge to hold the 'golden rod' from falling to the floor. I have used 1/8" strips on both sides of exchanger baffles needing built up and was able to run .045" dual shield wire to the baffle edge with no 'over run'. I used clamps to hold the copper tight against the sides of the baffle plate. Makes for a nice clean edges with no side inclusions also.

[Phil Krankowski]

I just want to see before. during and after pictures!
Phil

[Fe-Wood]

Bob-
you get the, um, lets see, what can I give you, hmmmm all the way in Maine. Are within spitting distance of New Portland?

Those are some out standing tips! I was going to use Copper in the Hardie hole but clamping Graffite or Copper to the sides... I probably would have gotten there after a rod or 2 went on the floor. I've got 2 pieces of copper 1/8" thick that are just about as long as the anvil.

I have a question:
If I preheat to 400 Deg. before I start welding, how hot can I take it to WHILE I'm welding before I should let it cool a bit?

Phil-
I'll be taking pictures at every step...

[Mainely,Bob]

Let me think here as it`s been awhile since I`ve hardfaced anything resembling tool steel.Been mostly excavator buckets and the like here lately.

IIRC,we didn`t worry too much about how hot we got it other than to worry about drawing the temper.Tempil sticks will help here and we used them in three temps "side by each" lowest being the target preheat temp,then one step below max to warn you that you`re getting close to messing up the temper and one that is at the "line of no return".
What seemed to help was to have a water mist wand handy(compressed air thru tube with control valve and T to suction water from a 5 gallon bucket)we played the water mist on the area slightly away from the weld to cool once the mid Tempil kicked off.The mist was supposed to be "kinder" than a water hose or rag soaked in cold water.easier to control too.Joe Kover showed me that trick from his days as a flame straightener.
Another trick he showed me was to use a high frequency box(if you have a separate add on unit)tied into the stick welder to both make it easier to strike the arc and get the arc to scrub out impurities(aggressive arc with almost no spatter depending on the rod) from a less than perfect surface.Worked well in hard to access areas and if you have deep damage that you are hesitant to grind completely out(grinding back to good clean metal is always best though).
On your anvil you may want to keep that trick in mind.Allows you to run a smooth arc at less than normal amps(and temp),something to think about for heat sensitive jobs.
That`s about all I can remember from those days that might be useful to you here.I`ll either post more or PM you if anything else important comes to mind.

As far as max heat Robb G. would be the guy to ask as far as anvils go.I had all my experience with manufacturing equipment,hardened ways,dies,etc.
I repaired my own anvils using what I knew from that and it follows Robb`s procedures so...
BTW-My present anvil is still alive and well 10+ years after it`s repairs and that`s in a house with me and 2 teen age boys and their (supervised) friends using it with no problems so far.

[evfreek]

Fe-Wood, on 08 March 2010 - 02:01 PM, said:

Sticker shock ain't the word for it!!!!! Over $600.00 for 10 pounds in my initial web search-

But I was refering to "cheep" rod to practice with... to get my legs back

Look for the original rods that are referenced in the article. Not the stoodite. They are reasonably priced. And there are lots of reasonably priced alternative rods like those from Rankine. Just type the names of the rods into an internet search, and you will find prices like $6 per pound online. This is not cheap, but it is not wild, either.

[Dragons lair]

I don;t know where you can buy a good rod for $6 a lb. I wouldnt use it to repair dumpsters.
I have payed $1.30 a stick for .035 cast iron tig rod. Best thing is check with a local supplier
I have a chronotron rep local. Ask who in your area is using the high end rod. I called them and got a small amount.
Ken

[evfreek]

Dragons lair, on 09 March 2010 - 11:04 PM, said:

I don;t know where you can buy a good rod for $6 a lb. I wouldnt use it to repair dumpsters.
I have payed $1.30 a stick for .035 cast iron tig rod. Best thing is check with a local supplier
I have a chronotron rep local. Ask who in your area is using the high end rod. I called them and got a small amount.
Ken

Hi Ken. Cast iron rod is pricey. This is not useful for most anvils.

Try ramweldingsupply or www.scottgrossstore.com

[Fe-Wood]

Ok, Here is where I am so far-
If it sounds like I'm about to go over a cliff, Someone please chime in

My anvil is a Peter Wright made sometime around 1860 Wrought Iron Base, Tool Steel top.
Based on Robb's recommendation, I have ordered 10 pounds of Stoody 2110 X 3/16" for $6.97 per pound AND I can get it locally. Surprise!

Only question I need an answer to is max heat, unless I'm missing something. I will be using a 400 Deg. Tempil stick for pre heat and a 450 Deg. for max heat. Unless I hear otherwise.

I am going to build a box for the Vermiculite so I can slow cool it after I'm done. I will do a dry run so I get the procedure down and amount of Vermiculite I need.

[Dragons lair]

FE, I would go over the cliff with ya. Have welded a few. Not this method Just what I do after 40+ yrs of welding.
For me it was do or not do. I like nice tools NOT acceptable tools. I have hit a 1qt oil can over 500 yds with iron sights. I do not tell anyone to weld or not to. Not to radius or do it. Do what works for you.
Ken