What Hand Tools for Drawing Out

[roy_tate]

I have a very limited set of tools now - a rough 140 lb anvil, cross-pein and ball-pein hammers, amd a 63 lb SCABA swage block. I am making some of my tongs now, and looking for ways to draw out reins faster (I know ... power hammers are great). What tool would you make or use to draw out reins? I recently bought an old 1/4" top fuller head, to which I could add a handle.

So ... would you just use the horn of the anvil, try the anvil edge, make a bottom fuller (what size?), or make a spring fuller? I'm mostly interested in which would be the most effective tool for drawing 1/2 or 5/8 inch stock down to 3/8 or 1/4 inch.

Lately, after working in a nicely equipped shop, I've started to suspect that my biggest problem is getting my fire hot enough. I'm going to hook up a blower (only 100 cfm) to my forge, to see if that helps.

Regards,

Roy

P.S. "Buy 3/8 inch stock" is not an acceptable answer to this question. Then, I would have to ask how best to upset 3/8 inch to 1/2 inch!

[primtechsmith]

Depending on the weight of your hammers I would use the horn of the anvil. The closer you get to the tip of the horn the more of a fuller you have. I have used the horn in the past and was pleased with the results. I would however suggest two things: 1. heat is your friend, and 2. fuller then flatten every time. This will help fight off cold shuts, and control your taper.

Good Luck. I am no where near as smart as these other guys...so you will get better advice. I am sure of it!

Peyton

[Blacksmith Jim]

Disclaimer: I haven't made tongs yet. (Through I plan to soon)

I've come to realize that a lot of people actually just weld the 'reins' on. They just make the front tong/clamp part, then cut it off the stock and weld on an appropriate handle. I probably won't do that, and will draw mine out like you are (at least the first few pairs) but it is something to keep in mind.

[Chris Pook]

the horn works good, or use a piece of round stock as a fuller and go at it, it'll be ugly at first but once you go back and smooth it all will be good.

a smithing magician or gillitine (SP?) tool works real good for this if you want to build one.

[HWooldridge]

The horn works well but you lose some energy as you work farther out away from the body. I have the edges of the anvil near the horn heavily rounded - about 1/2 inch radius over about 3 inches of length and so I use the rounded edge of my hammer face to "double fuller" the material on top and bottom. Remember that everything is a heat sink so it's good to work as quickly as possible and keep the material touching only at minimal places. In other words, if you lay it on the anvil and turn to grab the hammer to forge with the cross peen, much of the useful heat will already be lost.

All of Peyton's suggestions are valid - make sure you get it HOT...bright white/yellow and just under burning is where I try to forge most mild steel. I don't know your stamina level but you ought to be able to get the rough drawing done on a tong handle from 1/2" stock in 5 to 7 heats with hand forging.

[oakwoodforge]

A Fuller over the sweet spot of your anvil seems to get a little more done than using the tip of the horn. Take some good sized scrap plate or wide barstock, lay it on the anvil face , make your self a shank that fits the Hardy hole tack weld the two together, use anti spatter to protect the anvil face,
margerine works well { Thanks Tenhammers } if you don't have the professional stuff. Now weld a peice of 1/2 to 1 inch round on the plate over the sweet spot of the anvil. This Puts the mass of the anvil under your bottom Fuller and works better than one that fits in the hardy hole way out on the heel of a London pattern anvil. Now you can really beat on it and not worry about breaking the horn off.

But then I ask why not just forge weld 1/4" or 3/8" or 1/2 " reins on to the tong jaw parts and save all that work ?

Jens

[Rich Waugh]

I do fast drawing over the far edge of the anivl face near the step, much as Hollis recommended. One thing that will help you on this is to start from the near part of the stock, not the end. That way, the part that is losing heat waiting for you to get to it is hanging off the anvil in the air and not losing heat to a cold anvil face by conduction. Doing this will save me about 1/3 or more of the heats I used to have to take.

The other thing that helps is to have a square-faced forging hammer that has a decent radius to the edges. I use the side edge of my hammer's flat face as a "top fuller", and it allows me to swing it from a natural stance that delivers more power and accuracy than trying to use a cross pein.

[the_sandy_creek_forge]

I too use the edge of the anvil for drawing out, and let the hot end hang out like Mr. Waugh. Conveniently, my old 150# Kirkstall has a nice chip busted out on the far edge that creates the perfect radius for drawing out lighter (up to 1/2") stock.
I'm not fond of bottom fullers for drawing out, because it seems that some amount of energy is lost in the junction of the fuller and anvil (although with tighter fitting fullers and a heavier anvil this might not be a problem ??)
I'm also not a fan of fullering over the horn, but thats mostly because my anvil is a family heirloom and I would hate to ever break off the horn (a somewhat rare, but not unknown , occurence).
Hope this helps.
-Aaron @ The SCF

[roy_tate]

Thanks for the tips and opinions. I need to think about the heat-sink effect of the anvil more (although after I've worked for an hour or so, my anvil face is not exactly cold anymore). I have a piece of heavy bar stock that I will try using as a heater (get it up to black heat, not red and set it on the anvil).

So whether I use the horn or the far edge of the anvil, keep it hot and step up to the anvil so as to avoid strain and preserve my energy.

Noone really favored a "spring fuller", that's interesting. I have to be careful using the edge of my anvil, as it doesn't have the hardest face or the smoothest edge. A former owner used it under a cutting torch, and somehow cut off the heel right through the prichel hole!

To those who mentioned welding on 3/8" reins, I intend to learn forge welding after I have more than this one pair of 3/4" flat jaw tongs. My future tool list includes an anvil helper based on a Blueprint here, several Hardies (one to make do, then a good one), etc. And later on, yes, a power hammer.

My first pair of tongs are in my humble gallery.

ApprenticeMan: I soak my metal a bit then crank for a minute or more to get a good heat. As I said, I am looking into hooking up a blower. I'm hoping to use Jim Caruthers' idea of a dryer blower, and see how that works.

Roy Tate

[Blacksmith58]

There is another approach to the subject. I've not mastered it yet but it works pretty good. I watched Tom Clark, with his Hofi Style hammer, draw out a nail on a 1/2" round stock, about five inches long, down to a four sided pointed nail. He uses the downside edge of the face of his hammer as it was rotated in his hand, so it could be used as a fuller and works over the heart of the anvil and before all the heat was gone, he hardie cut the nail almost all the way through so he still had a handle to work with. Very quick and solid way of hammer control. On his second heat, he broke off the nail in a Nail Header and hammered the sweetest round head I had ever seen. Two heats and a five inch Big headed nail was done. Using the edge of the hammer face as a fuller really move some material. I was amazed to watch it happen!

It should also be noted: the edge of his hammer was really rounded over smooth fuller style as well!

[primtechsmith]

I suppose I should add that the anvil I use is a newer cast tool seel anvil (260# JHM). So I worry less about the horn breaking off. Besides I use a pair of modified vice grips for most of my round stock work...

Peyton