[Bryce Masuk]

The true beauty of blacksmithing is the fact everything is open nothing is set,

your grasp of design or personal set way's are the only limit in what can be made and how it can be made

some dislike welding others use it as a method and not an overwhelming and as the only method of joining metals

in the end accuracy is accuracy your ability to produce what you desire on paper in reality.

this a very important aspect of building anything someone on here had a signature that said "there can be no art without craftmanship"

Things that interest me greatly are nature, the human figure, and the abstract which is always based on nature or man made objects in a natural way.


The human mind can find a link between anything, it doesnt matter what it is it never ceases to amaze me, the golden ratio is probley the most overrated number in reality, using it in perfect form does not entirely please me or suit all situations

art is one thing that is very distorted in many ways most people seem to think that being an artist is some innate god given gift, I dont think this can be true.

art is about KNOWING and making what you know into reality anyone can throw a curve or sketch,
being to see it clearly is a matter of understanding and determination.

What do you think, how do you design things, where do you draw your resources from?

in this modern age we have the internet which like television can be used as an amazing tool, or a it can produce a useless drooling blob at the helm of clicking buttons.


How many hours per day do you sketch? many times i have dissatifying results on paper in details but the forms come easier and easier,

but its ok because I can make 30 drawings after work and not be entirely happy with them but the next time pen hits paper it seems they remind my hand what it truly desires,

[Paul42`]

Hey Bryce... I like what you've written here. I enjoy cooking (especially with cast iron) but I rarely use any recipe exactly as I found it. I often turn to the internet for ideas, but I may take three or four recipes for the same dish and combine various parts from them. I use previous ideas & methods and like to tweak the recipe to what "feels" like it would work. Results can vary greatly but for me, there's no better way of learning. Being new to metalwork, I find myself using the same method for things I want to forge. I've copied & saved tons of pictures from the net. Some things are dead simple and others I know I'll never even attempt, but the ideas that flow from there are what I use for inspiration. It's funny, but whenever I try to make something "exactly" as I've seen it, thats when the frustration starts...lol. I don't know where I've read or heard it, but I agree that drawing your ideas out first is a huge help. Draw, sketch, draw.. and the occasional digital pic doesn't hurt either. I'm not that good at putting pencil to paper, but I'm trying to make a concentrated effort so it may become habit and it is kinda neat to look back at your drawings to compare what worked and what didn't. I too, am interested in forms in nature and try to take my camera everywhere I go. My pics can range from a large rolling landscape, to a funky tree, to a close-up of moss or a spiders web. Lately I've considered taking a weekend sculpting course just to get a better feel for more dimensional work.

There ya have it... my 2-cents worth.

[beth]

the thing with drawing from life - nature, human form, whatever - is that it helps you to see - its nothing to do with art or it neednt be , just educating your eye. even sketching from a pic off the internet is good, coz thats where you change it into something more about your brain and your eye rather than who or where you got it from- its how images and ideas evolve and change. i personally love to draw and its never ever wasted time in my book. i think any kind of practical making work like blacksmithing or sculpture is really needing your eye to be trained and good. well theres my oppinion too

[Frosty]

Well said Bryce, well said.

In part the signoff about art and craftsmanship reminds me of well heck is almost exactly what I've thought for a long time. My definition of art is: transendant craftsmanship. Art is communication its one person's way of saying something and it's up to the observer, feeler, taster, whateverer to pay enough attention to get a message. Not THE message, just A message.

Yeah I draw, lots but I'm no artist with a pencil, not hardly. I have lots of training on a drafting table and taught myself CAD, this lets me make precision drawings which on occasion are necessary. My other big friend is graff paper, I make lots of concept sketches and working drawings on graff paper. It doesn't matter what you draw on or even if you draw. What matters is can you make what you see? Can you make it well enough other folk see what you do? When I say "make" I'm not talking about blacksmithing or sculpture, I'm talking about whatever it is you do to express yourself be it speaking or writing, drawing, painting, throwing clay, casting metal forging iron or finishing concrete. Anything taken to a high degree of accomplishment is art and skill or not, if it speaks to people it's ART.

Of course that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Frosty the Lucky

[Bryce Masuk]

Frosty, on 13 February 2010 - 02:40 AM, said:

Well said Bryce, well said.

In part the signoff about art and craftsmanship reminds me of well heck is almost exactly what I've thought for a long time. My definition of art is: transendant craftsmanship. Art is communication its one person's way of saying something and it's up to the observer, feeler, taster, whateverer to pay enough attention to get a message. Not THE message, just A message.

Yeah I draw, lots but I'm no artist with a pencil, not hardly. I have lots of training on a drafting table and taught myself CAD, this lets me make precision drawings which on occasion are necessary. My other big friend is graff paper, I make lots of concept sketches and working drawings on graff paper. It doesn't matter what you draw on or even if you draw. What matters is can you make what you see? Can you make it well enough other folk see what you do? When I say "make" I'm not talking about blacksmithing or sculpture, I'm talking about whatever it is you do to express yourself be it speaking or writing, drawing, painting, throwing clay, casting metal forging iron or finishing concrete. Anything taken to a high degree of accomplishment is art and skill or not, if it speaks to people it's ART.

Of course that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Frosty the Lucky

Yeah, well I found once I had learned the basic basic's I kept wanting to forge and i found after awhile I would be forging faster than I could come up with Idea's on the fly,

I realized everything I had been ordered to make in work places came from drawing which i had no envolvement in, often I would never see the drawing just be handed a cut list.

I quickly realized that my greatest flaw was a lack of knowledge of design, but mostly FULLY planning the design

I can visualize what i want but it seems to lack the connection that is required to physically make it in reality and make it so it looks good and functions and has structural integrity.

Drawing to full scale is something autocad will never be able to do unless you manage to come up with a 10" x 20" printer

Autocad is something I have been practicing with as well the beauty of some of these programs is the FX parameters the abilty to calculate weight accurately, as well as friction and motion and so forth

but for real artistic iron work it doesnt have the same value its just too calculating, ridgid, and accurate

if you were going to program it into a special cnc unit and have it all made it just wouldnt look right

I will post some of my drawings once I finish a few of my better ones off, right now I look at is as being the time where I should copy the work of the masters on to paper as best I can.

then thing of my own idea's and the things I like within the work of past,

it takes time though some of my good drawings are 40 hours of work and still unfinished.

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

What is art? Depends on who you talk to.

Some artist guilds are snooty, and look down on what they term "crafts", basically anything other than painting. I am a member of the Vegas Artist Guild, and we have all manner of painters,and folks who work in fabric, metal, ceramics, textiles, tattoos, wood, cartoonists, and more. I was told "We don't care if you have any artistic ability at all, as long as you appreciate art, we want you." Our motto is - Artists helping Artists. Some members came in, having no art ability, but after being immersed in a creative pool like we have, they have found an artistic medium that spoke to them. One gentleman came in like that, and ended up doing a demo for us a few months ago.

I work in metal, wood, ceramics, leather, paper mache, and anything else that strikes my fancy. I draw a lot, and lots of doodling. Doodling can create some striking forms, as the mind is somewhat detached, and the hand is just flowing on the paper.

Personally I think to be an artist one must look beyond one's personal medium of choice. I find inspiration in many other art forms, and artisans of differing backgrounds. That is one reason why I still attend the Guild meetings, even though it now requires me to drive 350 miles. 200 round trip to work in Utah, then 150 to Vegas and back.

To me, art can be just a thing to look at, or it can be functional too. Whichever it is, it has to speak to me.

[yesteryearforge]

What FROSTY said
Mike

[Johnny Woolsey]

For myself, Art is anything that inspires emotion, on purpose.I feel a strong design can overcome poor execution(process or skill).I believe that an elevated process (skill) adds impact to any design.I think my ability to produce work that sells greatly improved when I gave up a certain amount of control or rigidity to outcome.Often an idea as first conceived doesn't work as imagined. If I can recognize this when in process I can set it aside until know how to proceed.The subconscious knows what is right.Listen.
My two bits.
Johnny

[Bob S]

BIGGUNDOCTOR, on 13 February 2010 - 03:15 PM, said:

What is art? Depends on who you talk to.

sometimes a cheeseburger and fries is art.

And that's a good thing.

Bob

[Ed Steinkirchner]

a cheeseburger and fries is ALWAYS art! and i consider myself an art expert. to be honest i have ideas all of the time and that is why i keep a sheet of line paper folded in my back pocket. if i have an idea for something, or just a shape that catches my eye, i draw it as best i can at that time and then take a better look at it later. i have a full binder of drawings, all in sections, and i draw them in full size when possible, like knives, swords, patterns for my carvings, etc. and if i can't draw it full size i draw it to scale on graph paper. that i usually only need to do that for gates, grilles, and the like.

[divermike]

I have explored these issues in my head many nights, and it became obvious to me something was missing, not the creative process, rather, the implementation of it. To take an idea, and make it come alive, the vision must have proportion, and that is where my stumbling block appears often. The book "The Power of Limits" really helped me there, as to art, well if it satisfies the inner eye, then in my mind it is art.

[kasper]

i like that,if speaks to you its art,thanks frosty,well put, less then 10 words.

[Frank Turley]

This query engenders multiple age old queries.

Years ago, I met a man, last name of Rocca, a native of inner city New York who had that wonderful accent when speaking English. He taught design to beginners at Parson's School. I told him, "Geez, I don't envy you, trying to convey design to neophytes." He responded in this manner. "Frank, I used to begin class by having students take a couple of field trips. First, we would each have a postage stamp size of paper, and we would go visit the Empire State Building where we had a good view of same. They were all to draw the building on the tiny paper. On the next field trip, we carried a large roll of newsprint, and at Central Park, we drew a blade of grass on a 30 foot length of paper. At the end of those two trips, they were BEGINNING to learn how to see."

http://www.turleyforge.com Granddaddy of Blacksmith Schools

[beth]

nice one Rocca!