33 replies to this topic

[Francis Trez Cole]

New2BS My 2 cents I have used a hofi hammer at a friends shop. When it comes down to it, it is what worked best for you. Philip simmons's favorite hammer was a ball peen I like a cross peen I am tall and want a longer handle. Stanley tool and die has just come out with a 2 pound and a 4 pound cross peen hammer $20.00 each with fiber glass handles. You can get one at home depot or lowes. find your local blacksmith group and attend meeting they usely meet at diffrent shopes and it will give you a chance to try diffrent tools. Beginning classes will help a lot before you make a major investment.

[Phil Krankowski]

I prefer wood over fiberglass or plastic handles as you can reshape wood to fit you hand more easily. That said, you can reshape synthetic handles bit sometimes you need to recoat them with the right product or you risk splinters.

But this post is a separate discussion.

Phil

[arftist]

To me this question is like asking which is better, a straight screwdriver or a phillips. The answer is niether is better, they do two different things, and you need both. Example: Fish tail scroll with long taper. Fisrt I draw the stock using the straight peen, the stock and hammer handle are at right angles to each other and one hand is not in the way of the other. Next I spread the tail with the crosspein, again the stock and the hammer handle are at right angles. Of course there are other ways to do this, but is having a couple extra hammers that big of a deal? I have never gone the diagonal pein route, it is not that I am against it, but I do O.K. with my pairs of straight and cross piens.

[Doug C]

Frank Turley said:

The old catalogs would show a straight peen for use by coopers, maybe for driving the hoops on?? I've never used a straight peen or diagonal peen for anything. Presently, my most used hammer is a 2½ pound cross peen made by Channellock. I mostly use the peen for getting more spread than draw, as on a fishtail end scroll. What's awkward? Hold the stock at an angle.

Turley Forge and Blacksmithing School : The Granddaddy of Blacksmithing Schools

Frank,
The way I was taught to shape a hoop for coopering was best served by a straight pien. You would take a piece of cold flat stock (e.g. 1.5 inches wide) and for its entire length hit the edge closest to you every quarter inch or so. The blows do not cross the full 1.5 inches. This causes the stock to form an arc which when wrapped around the barrel more naturally conforms to the barrels shape.

I used a hoop driver to drive hoops. Imagine a big wide chisel with the end flattened and then a groove fullered where the edge would normally be.

[Dragons lair]

Bottom line is what works for you. Ball pein,cross pein,streight pein, rounding,claw. If
it works for ya use it. You wanna drive what I drive, Shoot what I shoot, Drink what I drink. Do what works for you not me or any one else.

[Mark Wargo New2bs]

Thanks for the perspectives. As a novice, I just wanted to get some ideas about what might work best. I don't want to develop bad habits, or use shortcuts when I need to be learning something valuable. Up to this point I've been using re-handled pawn shop hammers. My wife is ordering me a 3# cast hofi hammer, so I can look forward to using that when it arrives next year. In the mean time, I'll develop the skill I can with the cross pein and improve my muscle development and hammer control.

P.S. I drive a Toyota Tacoma and shoot a Tikka T3 .270 Winchester Short Magnum. :D

[Mark Wargo New2bs]

Also, Arftist, my thinking was along your method. It feels more natural for me to hold the material and the hammer at 90 degree angles. That places me closer to the work, and helps me better see what I'm doing.

[Ten Hammers]

A few years ago I was looking for a straight pien hammer selection and could find none. Tons of cross piens but no real selection of straights. Junior Strasil made me a 3 lb straight pien and I absolutely loved it. I then over a period of a couple years had him make me 3 more straights and 3 cross piens. All different weights.

Take a piece of 3/8 rod and forge a long tapered point. Make the pigtail and then prepare to make a hook end (fron the far side of the face to the horn ). To me, the transition by rolling the head from hammer face to straight pien is a natural way to get a nice symmetrical curve. You can strike in close to the pigtail. This all done without changing the postiion of your hand.

It has been stated that perhaps a beginner class might be a good way prior to making an investment in tools. I won't necessarily disagree with this. Your own shop and your own anvil will make a difference.

Forging loops on ends of stock is a basic exercise. I do this exercise a lot on the face and horn of the anvil and use a straight pien. If I have a piece of tooling in the hardy (or vise) I use a cross pien because the geometry has changed. This also pertains to a floor cone mandril or swage block edge (which almost always uses a cross pien in my needs).

Some are in love with a quarter pien and I can understand that I guess. I just stay 45º or 90º to the stock and have always gotten by better with straights and crosses. I have made a rounding hammer from an engineers hammer ( ball one end, rounding other end). I have hammers with square face and round. I have I guess 6 choices of ball piens. The only custom made hammers I have are the ones Junior made (other than re-worked ones I have made). My hammers all have long handles and the large part have thinned wood behind the head transitioning to a somewhat heavier mass midshaft.

As my name implies I use a lot of hammers. I have watched Frank Turley do a fair bit of work on different projects at a demo. Forging, scarfing, welding, upsetting. This was all done with one hardware store bought hammer (cross pien ). He had dressed the face and pien to his liking and also the (storebought) handle. I was impressed to say the least.

This particular issue boils down to acquiring the ability to operate a hammer. Bad habits are sometimes hard to break. I have torn tools up in my learning proccesses trying to do things the way I thought they should be done. I have succeeded in getting things done in most instances and the tool became a consumable (hammer, tongs, welding nozzles etc). Watching another smith for 5-6 hours was a Godsend to me. I need to get out of this cave more often. Thanks to the BAM boys (and girls) and of course thanks to Frank.

[Hofi]

My mame was mentioned here several times and I want to clear some points from my point of view.
In my smithy and school I have ALL types of hammers to show my students the veriety of hammers in the smithing world.
There is NO contrediction between the hammer types and one is useing the hammers according to the need.
I forge ALL the types of hammers according the order and the will of my customers .
I myself used the straight pein hammer only once in the last 21 years only because I was asked by one of my student to demo it .the diagonal hammer I NEVER USE because I do not fined a need or a reason to use it. 95 % of my forging and I forge a lot is done with the cross pein hammer and to day or the last 5 years I forge mainly with the cast crosspein hammer because it is the most balanced ergonomic hammer .
I personaly do not like the phrase ''do what is good for you'' this is allways a cover for not learning another way that might be better only bacause one is used to a wrong or inferier way of forging. I KNOW IT IS NOT EASY TO CHANGE.
Hofi

[Mark Wargo New2bs]

Thank you all for your insight. I went looking around this weekend for blacksmithing tools at flea markets and antique shops. By pure luck I happened upon a demonstration by the Mississippi Forge Council. Those folks were very informative and discussed hammers with me and allowed me to get a feel for each of the hammers they had available. A big thanks to those guys for their knowledge and hospitality!

Mark

[AKFrosty57]

primtechsmith said:

I see the need for only a cross or straight pien. To me...the direction of the pien does not matter much because by moving my hammering arm and my tong arm I can achieve any needed angle.

Plus I have a prejudice against straight pien hammers. Mike can tell you...I hate the looks of them. To me they are the dumbest looking thing ever handled. I totally respect their use and value of a straight pien and those that use them...I just can't get over the look of one. HA!

I use a 2 pound Tom Clark cross pien. I have picked up a lot of hammers made by just about everyone...and this is the best hammer that I have ever picked up.

my .02
Peyton

PS: No offense to those with straight pien hammers...it is something I am trying to deal with. I need to have a better sense of equality for all piens! :)

Wow Peyton, I've never heard such a thing.

Maybe if you close your eyes when using one?

Frosty

[JDB]

New2BS, on 01 December 2009 - 12:29 PM, said:

As my screen name implies, I'm rather new to blacksmithing and I have a question regarding moving metal with the pein. I notice that the hofi hammers all have cross peins. I have a cross pein hammer, but I find it difficult to control the hammer with the metal held out straight in front of me with the tongs in front which places the hammer well out in front of me. Would a straight peen hammer be easier to use so that I could stand beside the anvil and hold the tongs perpindicular to the long axis of the face of the anvil? that seems like it would allow me to keep both my elbows close to the body and strike straight down more accurately. then, rather than pusing and pulling the hot metal with my arm, and trying to adjust my hammer arm, I could move the metal by rotating my hips and not have to adjust my hammer arm much at all.


Any experienced thoughts would be appreciated.


thanks,


Mark

I

[tcreeley]

I think you have it right. I'm cheap and I don't have a straight pene but I want one. I like the hammer to dance in my hands. If it doesn't I walk away. I like 24 oz -2.5 lb regular work and 3 lb heavy stuff. My best hammer was in the scrap pile at a flea market- old hand forged straight pene 3 lb. paid a dollar. I always round the edges of the face of the hammer with a file so it is like a slight dome - think farrier rounding hammers. doesn't leave marks and pushes the metal . Do that to the pene as well. Penes are always too sharp - round them up.

[CBrann]

I am a fan of cross and straight pein hammers. They both have their place. I have enjoyed reading the discussion.

I made myself a straight pein, because I could only find one for sale for about $70 US. I like to make tools, so I made the eye drift, hot chisel, then the hammer head. I made some mistakes. I made the pein to thin. about 3/16"... I use it for texture now. I did want to use it for long drawing, or middle of the long piece work. I may make another.. but a fuller or guillatine are more effecient in my mind for a lot of or heavy drawing.

I agree with the "take some classes" suggestion.. wish I had. .. but at the same time..make, borrow or buy cheaply the tools you want to play with to get a feel for them. Each of us will have their own tool kit. I think the only mandatory items ... with broad interpretation... are a. Forge, b. Anvil, c. Tongs, d. Hammer... and 1 or 2 non negotiables that must be high quality !!! Saftey glasses... !!!

If you learn about many different styles, you will find your own. ...

don't be afraid to try things out, whats the worst that can happen? ... you need to buy more steel and coal... (I am leaving injuries out on purpose... ) and another day at the forge...

Cliff