Frosty Posted August 14, 2007 Share Posted August 14, 2007 Powdered graphite works well. Frosty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark stephen Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 I use a combination of bees wax,borax and graphite powder.Melt the wax in a double boiler(one pot in another so the wax does not catch fire)and add the borax and graphite powder .Stir the mess up and shut your heat off.Now coat your punches slitters and drifts.The beeswax is just a medium to attach the graphite to your tools and the borax helps lower the melting point of the scale and keep it flowing out of the hole your punching(slotting,drifting) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candidquality Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Anyone ever use Everlube 620c? it's a MoS2 solid (after drying). Only drawback I can see is that it's an organic binder. Seems I've got a quart handy. Kinda nice being in aerospace at times. edit: appears to have some antimony in it as well. Second drawback is it's flammable(24f flash point). might be a bit more friendly if I could separate the solids from the vapors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 What ARE you talking about? Separating the solids from the volatiles would eliminate the flamability and wonderfuly delightful flash! Next thing you'll say is you want to eliminate the sound. What IS the world coming to? A smith who doesn't want flames bursting forth from the project! I think I'll go morn a dying art now. Frosty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truman Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Hello everyone. Can we back up a little bit? What is the reason for using a punching/drifting lubricant? Is it just to help keep the punch sharp? I'm new to blacksmithing. I recently built a smithy in my back yard and I'm working on my own (mostly), trying to learn how to forge proficiently. I've made a couple of punches and have punched a few of dozen holes so far. It seems to be working out okay ... but if lubricating my punches is recommended, I want to give it a try. Thanks for your help. This forum has been a great resource for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 A lot of the force used in punching/drifting is used to overcome the friction between the tool and the piece. Using an appropriate lube means you can punch *much* faster, deeper, your tool has less possibility of getting stuck in the piece, overheating, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 12, 2007 Share Posted October 12, 2007 Also, a punch, drift, chisel, etc. can jam as the metal being penetrated cools and shrinks while the punch, etc. heats and expands. With experience a person will know when to stop driving and knock the penetrator out of the work. A good lube makes removal more forgiving in addition to making the whole process more efficient. Frosty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eseemann Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I was at the Athens forge meeting last week (26 July) and the smith doing the demo was using a dry film molybdenum disulfide and graphite based lube and he said it did help a good bit in keeping the punch from getting stuck in the work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsoldat Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Moly disulphide should be available at any Honda shop. there was something on dirt bikes or lawn mowers that it is used for, but I'm drawing a blank right now. there was something I had needed it for pertaining to one ort he other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockstar.esq Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 It's a common bullet lubricant applied as a powder via a case tumbler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 the most available you already have. finally ground scale and Coal dust. I use it all the time when i make hammers. I try not to over think things use what you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 I still have a bottle of the grey gooey stuff I got from Glenn Conner, works well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausfire Posted August 2, 2014 Share Posted August 2, 2014 I found a bottle of 'Powdered Graphite' in our old chemist shop. It's very finely ground. No idea what it's medical use was, but perhaps it would be a good punch lube??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forgemaster Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 We use a commercial product called Lubridal F20C. it comes in a 10litre "bottle". We mix it 20 to 1 with water and we apply it by spray method, works wonderfully, it also works well by dipping punches etc into it, the tool/punch generally needs to be warm at least to achieve the best adhesion. We used to use a lube called deltaforge 106H but the company that supplied that decided to be a bit narky when selling it to a small user, therefore we now use lubridal, (pretty much the same kind of product anyway) both products are non flammable, non toxic, and produced no nasty fumes. I know that the volume you have to buy is a lot for one man, but the Artist Blacksmith Assoc of Australia purchased a bucket and they sell it to their members by the litre, no reason why you blokes in the US can't do the same. Lubridal is stocked by Fuchs Lubricants. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 I started using lubricant for punching and drifting after solving a problem for a Farnham College student I was helping who was trying to punch and drift aluminium. The drifts kept dragging and tearing the aluminium. Oil was no good even at that heat, but scouring round the College I found some flake graphite powder for burnished paint finishing and a pot of renaissance wax which acted as the vehicle to hold it on the punch. It worked great and I used it for all my punching for the next 25 years! It made literally tonnes of difference to the speed the hydraulic press could push through, which meant that the punch/drifts stayed cooler less pressure on the sliding bolster…win win. The only negative was that if it is in an open pot with a brush applicator the white spirit evaporates and it dries out, however more white spirit refreshes it no bother. A few years ago I noticed that the lable on the High Pressure cutting fluid I have for sawing, drilling, tapping Stainless Steel said also suitable for "forming and forging" so I have been using that to carry the graphite and it stays liquid for months. It is Molyslip brand MWF which is a molybdenised oil. The only drawback is that it does not smell as nice as the Renaissance wax when it cooks... "MWF (Metalworking Fluid) MOLYSLIP MWF is a concentrated neat cutting fluid containing a unique oil-soluble molybdenum compound together with extreme pressure anti-weld additives. Helps give greater cutting accuracy and prolonged tool life. PERFORMANCE AND USAGE: MOLYSLIP MWF should be applied directly to the cutting tool or workpiece to meet the extreme pressure conditions in cutting and forming. Its extreme pressure agents help to prevent weld, or pick-up both with tough metals and light alloys. MOLYSLIP MWF is especially useful for hobbing, gear shaping, thread grinding, broaching and tapping." Flake or powdered graphite is the key, you just need something to hold it onto the warm and possibly wet just-quenched drift... Phil's user friendly product with its memorable nuptial / honeymoon sounding name :) sounds a better bet rather than breathing in the fumes from my recipes above especially if you are doing a lot. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basher Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 I have used plombago (graphite powder) in water, it floats as a damp dust on the surface of water and coats tool very well. and also grease and plombago, and recently bought a farriers punching lube that smells like citronella candle and plombago. It all works wonderfully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forgemaster Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 We used to pronounce it plumbago, obviously a technical smithing term as it has been bought to the colonies by someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Intriguing the word mix up between graphite/lead/plumbago/plumbum. Tied in with graphite / lead in pencils I suppose. Talking of which I have used to excellent affect an ordinary pencil to give me an fine targeted lubrication on a steel mechanism (Bolt action lugs) Worked well. Works well if you rub a pencil on a key if you have a sticky lock as well. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 I punch up to 2.5 inch solids several times a week. I use peanut oil as a coolant for the punch. I've never used anything for lubricant specifically. I don't even cool punches if I'm punching bar smaller than 3/4-inch or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 I punch up to 2.5 inch solids several times a week. I use peanut oil as a coolant for the punch. I've never used anything for lubricant specifically. I don't even cool punches if I'm punching bar smaller than 3/4-inch or so. I can only encourage you to try some graphite one day, you will find it does make a huge difference to punching any size of hole. My hydraulic press is 30 tonne two stage pump with 15 tonne at approach speed and retract. I find the graphite enables most of the punching and drifting to take place at approach speed which of course keeps the punches moving faster and therefore cooler and takes pressure off the sliding bolster so it all works more efficiently. And that is true for both larger or smaller holes and stock. The graphite means that even with only 30 tonnes we have punched-and-drifted Ø80mm (Ø 3 1/8") holes through 80mm square and slot-punched-and-drifted out 95mm (Ø3 3/4") through 100mm (4") square even managed to drift some Ø120mm (Ø4 3/4") through 80mm square for one job. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 I'll give it a whirl and let you know if it makes any difference for my application! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SReynolds Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 A farrier I have worked with uses hoof packing. I do not know what it is....................though it is expensive when I looked at it when I visited the farrier supply. Used, obviously, when punching/drifting holes in horse shoes. I have used bees wax, pariffin,and tip dip (anti splatter grease for a mig welder tip) All of these flame up, so I really have no clue as to what to use that will not catch fire other than tha suggested coal dust or graphite lube. But I don't see graphite lube cooling the pritchel........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bill Posted September 5, 2014 Share Posted September 5, 2014 For those who find graphite to be the lube of choice, John Deere has powdered graphite in one POUND plastic squeeze bottles. You heard right. It's used as a lube for corn planters by adding a teaspoon or less to the filled seed hopper; it filters down into the mechanism to "insure proper lubrication". (Yes, it works). Part No. B33379 Powdered Graphite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iron quake Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 If you can get your hands on some Deltaforge 182 from Henkel, you might be very impressed. I've been using it to punch and drift up to 1" square holes with great success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew T Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Bill, thanks for the tip the local JD dealer has it on the shelf for $5 per one lb bottle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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