Power Tools

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by maddog

It is! I bought one five or six yrs ago on your & Ron Reils advice you also gave me a lot of tips on how to use it. You probably dont remember but thank you!

You're right, I don't recall EVER recommending an AllStates torch to a Maddog.

Glad it's working for you. Often when I talk about the thing I get the feeling reasonable folk think I'm telling tall tales. Sometimes I begin to wonder myself, then I'll need to do something really unreasonable for an O/A rig, break it out and it just breezes right through it.

I have to order a part for the oxy reg, I dropped it a while back and broke the bottle level gage.

Frosty

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by Glenn

There are many different size tips for the ox/ac torch, and one size does NOT fit all sizes of work.

Right you are but if you find the tip that will let me weld with my AllState Oxy Propane torch let me know. The guys who make them say you can weld with one but I've yet to meet anyone who could do it well at all.

Frosty

[Glenn]

Would Harris, Victor, or other brands fit your AllState? How about uncoupling the AllState head and coupling another brand onto the hoses? There are several oxy/propane tips out there, getting one that fits inside an AllState torch may be a challenge.

[Frosty]

You can get different size and type tips for the AllStates torch that are designed to work properly with it.

There is a problem with the pressures of the gasses involved. Unlike O/A which is an equal pressure system, twice the oxy psi as acet psi amounts to the same molecular weight hence "equal pressure". The propane torch operates at widely different pressures, the propane in the low ounces per inch (ozpi) while the oxy even using the small brazing tips in in the range of 20-30 psi.

With oxy psi this high the flame itself just blows the molten metal out of the puddle.

Lyle at AllStates told me I just needed to know how but the local rep couldn't show me. Then he told me I needed to buy a newer model torch. Then he hemmed and hawed. Three different conversations over a period of time.

I'm not complaining, I didn't buy it to weld with. I simply point out the one weakness of the rig when I talk about them. If you have to have a torch set you CAN weld with do NOT buy an AllStates oxy/prop rig. Unless (and it's a big one) you have a rep who CAN weld with it and teach you. If anyone runs across one and learns how, please tell me!

Frosty

[Glenn]

Can you put a regulator in the line to cut the pressure / flow to what is needed?

[maddog]

To get the equivalent heat of an oxy acet torch you need a much higher oxy pressure. Also, an oxy acet is much more concentrated than propane so you get a larger HZ and must use a hotter setting (since you are heating more material)

But I think the chemistry is just wrong. About the point where I get a puddle it all turns to slag. If it is possible its going to be way to touchy. Like Frosty I want to know how but I doubt I would use it for welding even if I did. Acet welds even when you are sloppy with the settings. Propane is fine for brazing and silver solder but worthless for welding steel. However propane rox for cutting and heating. One of the nice things about propane is you can use much higher pressures since its not unstable like acet. The tip is held about 1" away from the work and you can just roll the torch sideways to make a long straight cut. Also the cut surface is soft, not carburized and a lot cleaner than acet

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by Glenn

Can you put a regulator in the line to cut the pressure / flow to what is needed?

No. Oxy/prop will not burn properly at psi settings similar to O/A. That's why conversion tips work so poorly, the #1 complaint being excessive use of oxy.

The lowest an acet reg will set is 1lb. and that's not very accurate.

The AllStates rig piercing 5"+ with the oxy set in the 140-160psi range is only drawing around 5 ounces/ (ozpi?) (opi?) of propane.

To get a proper mix using a acet reg you'd have to be pushing 3x the psi or volume of oxy which is quite doable as an oxy/acet set up's oxy regulator is designed to keep up volume wise but not pressure wise.

By analogy it'd be like putting diesel injectors in a gas engine. It just won't work without retooling the whole device and you're right back to where you started.

I'm sure the guys who understand the chemistry are right about why it doesn't work. I can only speak for my own observations trying to do it. The flame appears to be blowing so hard that any steel that melts is immediately blown out of the puddle. If you turn it down low enough it doesn't do this it won't burn.

Anyway, the manufacturer says it can be done but they're in the business of selling the things. I've never met nor talked to anyone who could actually get a satisfactory weld with oxy/prop, even the AllState's torch.

Frosty

[Mike BR]

I have a Victor torch set up to burn propane. For the heck of it, I bought an adapter from ebay so I can connect the torch to a little disposable bottle of Mapp gas. I was able to weld with the Mapp flame. (That's saying a lot, because I was barely able to weld with an O/A flame the one time I've tried). Don't know if you could burn Mapp with the Allstates torch (or any really good reason to try), but it might be possible.

[matt87]

If you're a little wary at spending that amount of money, vintage progects has some reprints of projects to make bandsaws, power hacksaws etc.