Material for Punches and Chisels

[HWooldridge]

H13 is designed for hot work and very forgiving in heat treatment but it is tough to forge by hand and should be worked above a yellow temp. Forge to shape and let cool in the gas forge after it's turned off or bury in wood ashes. Afterwards, clean and grind to your satisfaction, then reheat to a bright orange and let sit in still air to cool. This will give a hardness in the high 40's to low 50's Rc. In use, it can be quenched in water from a dark red and not crack. This is why it is so popular for hot die work, casting molds, etc.

S7 is also good. It seems to have more tendency to crack but will get harder than H13 - but that is not really something that is needed in forging tools except for durability in high production. S1 has a bit of tungsten to help with hot hardness but is sometimes hard to find.

All of these are air hardening. M2 is typically used for cutters and the like so has some hot hardness qualities but is notch sensitive and will crack at the worst times. I would not use it for hot tools unless it was all I had and someone gave it to me.

I have a very thin (in cross section) hot chisel from H13 that will slice right thru a piece of 3/4 or 1" bar in one heat without rolling the edge. I forged it about ten years ago and it looks about the same with hard use. I redressed the edge on the belt grinder a couple of times but this was primarily to sharpen. Like Hofi said, build it once from good material and use it for a lifetime...

[Hofi]

Tim
When Forging The Toolsteels You Must!!! Be Very Carefull With The Forging Temp !!! S1 H13 M2 M4 And Also 1045 1050 1060 And On 4140 4340 Do Not Like To Be Forged On Higher Temp Then 1800 Degrees And Not Lower Then 800.
If U Go Higher U Creat Big Particals In The Steel And If U Do Not Normalize It It Will Be Brittal And Brake. U Degredate The Steel And Normalising Is A Very Long And Costly Proces And Not Eassy For The Blacksmith.
Forging Under 800 Degrees Create Iner Cracks In The Steel That U Do Not See While Forging But The Moment U Quench The Cracks Will Show And The Tool Will Brake When Used.
It Is Not Eassy To Maintain The Right Temp With Our Forges But Again It Is A Must!!! U Save A Lot Of Time And Mony If U Forge In The Limit Of The Rules Of Metalurgy.
I Agre With Every Word Of Hwoolridge

Hofi

[Ellen]

Best book I have found...and this includes Machinery's a host of others...is "Heat Treatment, Selection, and Application of Tool Steels" by William Bryson. Amazon sells it, so does Pieh Tool Co. It covers in readable language what Hofi just said about not ruining the steel.

You can also check at machine shops and see where they sell their drops. Sometimes there are little shops that specialized in selling these materials, and like Hofi said, I've bought H13 and S1 and A2 in nice shapes for $2-$4 each. That's not much for a tool that will last many, many years.

Good tools tend to make for good work.

[cheftjcook]

HWooldridge, Hofi, Ellen, Thanks Guys & Gal for the info it really is appreciated and will be put use good use right away. You have helped answer one of my many blacksmithing questions. It seems the more I work and learn the more questions pop up everyday. It is great to know you can get solid help or advice from great people.
Again Thanks, If there is more info, I am all ears and ready to learn!!!!
TIM

[Bruce Beamish]

Thank you Uri, Ellen and Hw you are all correct in what you say but not all of us have easy access to the types of tool steels you mention. There would certainly not be any shops or suppliers in the rural area where I live that would have offcuts of h13 or s7 etc. It is not available via mail order in short lengths like it is in the USA. The last time I purchased some hot die steel I had to travel 130 kilometres (80 miles) each way and the cost was $28 a kilogram (2.2lb)for the steel and it is certain to be more than that now. Generally the shortest length in small bar sizes you can buy is 1 metre plus cutting charge ($5).
As I said in my original post I took the request to be for a cheap source of tool steel for someone starting out to get some experience with.

Cheers,

Bruce

[Reoryx]

I must admit that I really wasn't expecting such a flurry of responses; you've certainly given me some very useful information both for immediate use and for future consideration. Thanks for all the responses.

[Hofi]

BRUCE
I NEVER SAID THAT THE JACK HAMMER REAR AXEL CAR MOTOR EXOUST VALVES STEEL IS NOT GOOD FOR HOT CUTTING OR PUNCHING U CAN USE THEM BUT U LL HAVE TO COOL THEM MORE OFTEN I MY SELF USED THEM AS A BEGINER AND THEY WORKED ALRIGHT.BUT AS A PROFFETIONAL I AM LOOKING FO THE BEST FOR INSTANCE TO DAY I PUNCH AND CHISLE MY HaMMARS AND AXES EYES WITHE A PURE TONGSTEN CHISLE THAT COSTS
ON THE MARKET PRICE 75$ 2.2 POUNDS BUT I FORGE HUNDREDS OF EYES NOW WITH THE SAME CHISLE WITH NO SHARPENING AT ALL !!!!
HOFI

[Bruce Beamish]

Hello Hofi,
Sorry I've been calling you Uri and you sign off as Hofi, I hope I've not caused you any offence.
Very interesting a pure tungsten chisel, that must take some forging and heat treatment. So could you tell us how you went about it?

Cheers,

Bruce.

[Hofi]

Hellom Bruce
Both Uri And Hofi Are Very Much Ok No Offence What So Ever.
My Feirst Name Is Uri The Femily Name Hofi Some Times I Sigen Withthe Feirst The Second Or Both.
As For The Tungsten Chisel; No Forging Is Possible. Only Grinding And No Heat Tritment Is Needed The Netueral Hrc When Cold Is 49-51
When Hot 45 And Because Ir Is Not Steel It Is Another Element There Is Very Little Friction Btween The Steel And The Chisel And It Will Cut In The Steel In The Tem Of 1700 Degrees Like Butter.
There Ar Two Types Of Tungsten -the Soft On That I Use And The Hard One That Is 70=72 Hrc Very Brital Whice U Can Not Grind Only With Diamonds Cald- Widia Or Hrd Metal Or The Proffetional Name '' Backed Carbides''
Best Regards

Uri+hofi= Uri Hofi

[Hofi]

Bruce

Hellom Is A Combination Of Hello And The Hebrew Word Shalom -means Peace

Hofi