Power Hammers

[JPH]

Fredly:

Stay with the 5 hp motor..I have a 2.5 HP on my 25# LG...never even hiccups when I hit the clutch pedal...

I dunno about anyone else but me being the luddite that I am....my 25# LG does more than enough work/capacity than I will ever use and frankly, anything bigger scares the xxxxouttame....besides if I ever do NEED to move heavier stock I got Julius...

On the dies..I use either medium or severe drawing dies in my LG..mostly the medium..moves alot of material with very little distortion on the laminate....

JPH

[HWooldridge]

The power hammer debate will really get opinions flying in all directions. Some camps love small hammers - others want the biggest available. Some advocate only drawing dies, other folks want flat dies and still others like "half and half". Depending on who you talk to, air, steam and mechanical are each the best design. Like hand hammers, there ain't no one right answer. I once watched a guy work a piece of 3/8" square on a 4B Nazel...because he could...but Francis Whitaker owned a 25 LG (as does Dr. JPH) so the art does not stem from the size of the equipment.

My first hammer was a 25 LG and I now have a 100 lb Beaudry. I have worked on a plethora of mechanical hammers but only a few that were air powered. There are common principles among all - principally that some sort of reciprocating ram hits the hot stock between dies. After that, the descriptive field gets pretty wide open.

IMHO, the LG designs in 25 and 50 are decent hammers for the typical home shop or single professional but they take some savvy to repair and keep tuned. Ones in bad shape are at the least, a waste of heats and can be deadly at worst. With that said, the newer self contained or compressor driven air models such as Iron Kiss and Big Blu are probably a better choice for the average user. Like I said earlier, I prefer flat dies but I spent a lot of time making a bunch of tools to fit on those dies so if you want to get a power hammer to hit hot iron and make it move, a set of fullering or drawing dies will meet the need. Past that, you may need to get creative to do very much else.

A power hammer does not serve the same purpose as a treadle hammer or a fly press, although a few people can make each one perform some of the processes that may be better suited to another. Everyone has different personal tastes, levels of income, workplaces, skill sets and experience, so all I can recommend as general advice is to sit down and make a few notes before spending time and money obtaining something that may not suit your needs.

[Chris Pook]

I have a a little giant 100lb and Nazel 3B, I'm a big fan of powerhammers the bigger the better I work everything from 1/4" stock to 4" solid square with it. The self contained I find are much nicer for long controled tapers etc they have real nice rythmn to them.

I use my little giant more for one hit work, I have real good brake on it and it can hit nice and hard single blows. I also use it when doing work were I need to have a certian die for one procedure and jump back andf forth from one hammer to the other.

Both machines I run radius flat dies and have built some different profiled dies that drop on the bottom die, They are the same size and have a flat bar band on them with a set screws to hold them on. Either that or I have one those drop on tool holders.

For the flat dies I found that an 1/8" radius isn't quite enough for me, I have the very edge of the die about 3/16 round but crown it in just slightly, about a 1/2" or so in which helps keep the straight die marks off the work when smoothing it out. These are on dies that are about 4" wide and 8" long so the amount you'd want on smaller dies would take some experimenting.


I highly recomend the Clifton Ralph tapes and the last Dave Manzer Video had some good demo's on tooling.

Spending time with someone who knows how to run a hammer is a must,

I had a couple years experience on hammers all self taught but had only seen someone else use them on videos' and once demo'd at an NWBA conference, I was a bit cautious using the Nazel to its full potenial so I went and spent a weekend with Terry Carson (president of the NWBA) at his place and had great time, and reassured me I was going in the right directions with my techniques and gave me confidence, well worth the time and money.

[Ellen]

I spent an afternoon last week with my friend Dief who has a 110# Big Blue; he has 3 die sets, flat, combo, and crown. He seems to use the combo dies the most, followed by the crown. It was a real education, and I think a class on a power hammer would be a good idea. And I intend to do so in the near future. My hammer will be delivered (115# Iron Kiss) in July, and I have contracted with a local rigging company to install it.

I don't know much about moving heavy machines, and so it is worth a few dollars to me to have it done properly....and safely...by pros. After all, by the time I pay for the hammer and the shipping to AZ from the east coast, the rigging become a very small part of the cost.

I watched Hofi's video on free form forging (about 3 times so far), and it was a real eye opener. I've tried to watch Clifton Ralph's video but I rented it from ABANA and the quality was so poor, I ended up watching only bits and pieces. If he'd put it on DVD I would buy it. As it is, Hofi is my first choice to take a class from, followed by Big Blue........but I think a class is necessary to get the most out of the tool and also to be sure you've learned the safety procedures.

There are lots of power hammers out there, and to be quite honest, the Little Giants and similar mechanical designs are intimidating to me. I do not like all those moving parts near my head. They seem distracting and dangerous. This is not to run down those who have and love and use their LG's dailing with no injury; it's just me.

Another deciding factor was air....I have lots of it. A two stage DeVilbiss 80 gal tank with 6.5 HP, rated at almost 20 SCFM at 150 PSI. So not additional expense there. Noisy you say? I'm fairly deaf as it is. I'll wear ear protection to save what hearing I have left, but I spent way too many years shooting before the days of ear muffs and ear plugs.

Great discussion here guys and gals, I've learned a lot. Let's keep in info coming and lets all share, and we'll all learn something.

[Mills]

Ellen, you've mentioned your air source before and it seems I recall you got a deal on it somewhere. Would you mind telling me a bit more about it as I have aspirations of getting 'air power' in my shop someday when I get a shop. (If we had some ham..... _)

[Ellen]

Howdy Mills,

Well, I bought the DeVilbiss from Harbor Freight (not to worry, it's still made in Alabama) and it was $800 delivered (with lift gate truck), HF had a special no freight on anything over $500. I don't think they carry it now, and I don't think the free freight is in effect now either. I do see some nice two stage compressors for about that price range (cast iron cylinders and not the plast oil-less junk) at Home Depot and maybe one or two other places. Seems like you can can get a new compressor, American made, for around $800 or so; if you want a Cadillac of compressors check out Ingersoll Rand, seems like they have them on line, maybe The Tractor Store or some such. Rich W, I think, bought one that way, and when he is through with his off line sabbatical perhaps he may chime in.....I'm sure others will.

[JPH]

Ya know... I was thinking of putting in a central compressed air line but really..since i do not have any air tools...what would I reaslly use it for?? I'd rather spend the $$$ on a decent vacuum system for the grinders....cut down of the grit and dust

JPH

[Ralph]

I have an old DIvillbiscast iron pump, but none of the internal pluming yet. one day.
ralph

[Ralph]

actually miine is not made by them any longer but pieces parts might be had

[ThomasPowers]

Sigh, had a "friend" call me up over lunch saying he had something he thought could be made into a blacksmith's triphammer. Sure enough it was a small punch press as I expected. He did offer to sell me something I had expressed interest on at the tech auction but had not bid on as I didn't need it and it was lumped into a group with a couple of things he did need---wanted about as much as the whole lot went for IIRC and as that was about 5 times what I paid for similiar stuff previously I was not too enthused.

Thomas