welding/welder question

[Chris P]

I've been playing around with an arc welder for a while now and its not going very smoothly. What I'm wondering is just how much easier a MIG is compared to an arc?

The issue is that I'm working with metal that is thicker than the little buzz box is meant for. So, I'm kind of in the market for another welder anyway. With things being a little tight I'm hesitant to spend that 500+ on a new MIG. Yet with the quality of my welds to begin with, and the fact that the welder isn't supposed to be welding metal this thick I'm not really comfortable welding anything structural...

So, should I bite the bullet and buy a MIG, in the hopes that I can welder better with it. Or should I stick it out with the buzz box and desperately hope I eventually get better?

[maddog]

It takes a while to learn stick. They say you have to burn about 50# of rod. But you will get a higher rated buzzbox for your money. Its also a lot easier if you have DC

[HWooldridge]

It's better to master stick first. MIG has its place but stick is very useful - especially if you do any repair work.

What rods and sizes, heat range, etc. are you using? Maybe we can help you with technique or settings.

I learned with 6011 and am glad that I did as 6013 is often recommended for beginners and many people have trouble with slag inclusions. You might want to try 7014 as you can actually lay it down and burn a very nice bead without holding an arc.

[LarryM]

Depending on how many amperes your welder will produce as to whether it is too small for thickness of steel being welded. Weld preparation is also important.
You can get better penetration at lower amps, With a smaller size rod. Vee out weld seam, Then run stringer beads. I'm more in favor of a stick welder because it has less things to go wrong. Mig requires gas cylinder if you're not using flux core wire. Some other comsumable include gun tips, gun nozzles, gun liners, if it gets kink or worn. So my advice is stay with your stick welder or buy bigger stick welder for thicker steel.

Larry

[Chris P]

I know what your saying about the slag inclusion.. It is one of the main reasons I have been considering MIG. I've been working with 1/8th 6013s for the most part. The real trouble I'm encountering is trying to weld a 1/8th piece of flat steel to a 1/16th tube. The bead seems to land on either one or the other and when it does connect them the slag is usually between them causing an awkward tunnel under the weld.

The buzz box I have only goes to 100amps and does not seem to penetrate very easily. Although a lot of that could be due to my lack of skill. I wish I could get something a bit bigger, but I am confined by only having 120 outlets at my disposal.

Another issue I've run into is that I can't really strike an arc at low amps. Being that I'm going to be welding sheet as well this will be a problem. Maybe I'm just doing something wrong, but I'm having a hell of a time striking and arc and that in itself is frustrating.

Thanks for the replies, any suggestions are welcome.

[maddog]

buzz boxes dont work well on 120 and stick arcs are harder to maintain at low currents. For learning one should start with 1/8" or even larger. Stick is very useful and a basic 220v machine will weld a wide range of thicknesses but stick is not suited for stuff below 3/32 and even then its tricky. Yeah there are some guys who can do nice stick welds on sheet but they are very good welders. In your case I would consider one of the 120v mig outfits. They are nice and easy to use but limited in their upper range.

You should probably practice a straight fillet weld before doing it with pipe. What rod are you using? 6010/6011 gives very good penetration with little slag. You might try a small gap in the weld using thin wire as a spacer.

[stevet]

if youre welding thin stuff mig will be far easier, it takes far less skill than stick to use

[racer3j]

I use my Dillon or other traditional torch as default. If heat transfer is an issue, then mig. I have the Lincoln SP170T- 220 current and the model sold through welding specialty houses. No 220 in garage. But I have a big noisy 5000w generator.mt

[LarryM]

If you are having trouble striking and arc try think of striking a match. Don't tap, just pretend you have a match in the electrode holder. I would try 6011 for the thin sheet it is a quick freeze rod. When you whip it in and out of the weld puddle you will notice want I mean. With that small of a welder, try 3/32 or 1/16 rod on the lower amp setting. You might be surprised how well it will work for you.

Larry

[archiphile]

As a certified professional welder, this is how I view you dilemma(s)

With a single vee bevel, I can run a good but joint @ about 90 amps, in all positions, 7018-1/8" rod. This is using a 1/8" 6010 rod a lower amps (don't really remember the setting) root pass. This is on 3/8" ANSI A- 500 (A-36) Plate, with and w/o a backup plate.Leave a 1/16" land on the bevel and also use a 1/8" root gap. What I am trying to say is that I do not think that your machine is to small.

With respect to the slag inclusion, it sounds like you angle of attack is incorrect. Use a lead angle of about 10 degrees while holding the stinger and rod at about 45 degrees with respect to the work. This is what I do. Also make sure that your arc length is correct. With a 1/8" rod your arc length should be about 1/8" ( if I remember correctly)

Take all of this information with a grain of salt, I have not used SMAW (aka stick) for about 5 years.
I had a hard time with stick in school, but I felt a great sense of accomplishment once I got it. My suggestion like other would be to stick with it. You can do a great many things with stick, and due to the low amount of consumables required to stick weld as compared with GMAW (MIG). I have a MIG machine I like it it was expensive and I will take me a lot of projects to equalize my ROI (rate of return). All told I spent $1,000 on the machine and consumables. Another $500 on a torch and bottles.