Laminating

[FERRARIVS]

Has anyone ever tried making a laminated blade- one with a mild steel core and tool steel edges? Not a Damascene type, but just straight forge welding of three bars with subsequent forging? I can get the welds, but they break under the shear force of shaping. Granted I'm just doing butt joints and clearly they're not ideal and know a 'v' shaped joint will work better, but it's a LOT of work initialy shaping the elements and I'm really hoping someone else has done it successfully and might be able to offer some pointers- my head's hurting from banging it against this particular wall

Thanks.

Matt

[ThomasPowers]

One of the big problems is having such a difference in forge welding temps between mild steel and high carbon, (in general a lot of the high alloy tool steels are not a good choice for this).

Another problem is that tool steels are much harder under the hammer so it's easy to shear the softer mild steel as it want to deform more.

If you are using a high alloy tool steel you may need a more aggressive flux as well.

I'm currently working on a pattern welded core with applied edge (Anglo-Saxon spearpoint); but it's all made from Wrought iron and wrought iron blister steel that I blistered. So I have it easy!

[FERRARIVS]

Yeah, I've heard iron is a whole lot easier when it comes to welding- I wish I could get some LOL Well thus far my experiments have actually been using all mild steel and I still break the weld, so I can't say I'm entirely surprised to hear high carbon steel will probably be more difficult.

[pete46]

can't mild steel be decarbed to get it to weld more easily?

[chyancarrek]

Hey Farravis,

I'm thinking I might have a stick of wrought you can have if you want to try it. I got it from a dismantle of a 19th century fence that got taken out by a car.

Given you're in BC and I'm in Washington, shipping wouldn't be too bad.

If I remember right the stick is 3/4" - 1" square and about 20 - 30 inches long.

I sold a bunch of it at a BS conference a couple years ago and the fellas who bought it really liked working with it.

It's rusty and looks like he** but it forges up nice. I just don't do anything with it.

Give me a shout if you're interested - I'll go dig around in the ol scrap pile and see if I can find it.

[imagedude]

The addition of carbon lowers the temperature required for forge welding. It is a lot easier to make pattern welded steel from medium/high carbon steels than it is to weld MS to carbon steel. Here's some I made from CS70 (1070) and 15N20.

[MooseRidge]

Try making a modified sandwich billet.... 3 sheets thick...

Mild steel
1/2 HC Steel, 1/2 Mild steel
Mild steel

Same process as Damascus initially, but without the folding... Then grind the edge down to the HC steel for your edge....

[MooseRidge]

Start with a larger piece of mild steel stock, split it halfway, and insert the HC steel.... Forge weld.... usually takes 2 or 3 times with lots of flux.....

Flux, get to forging temp, 30 secs of hammer, reflux, reheat
Repeat

Gives a good strong weld and adds some interest to the blade itself.....

[steve sells]

Many Viking Swords had iron cores with the outer layers welded over them. It is hard to address your issues with out more detail.

Using general terms is hard to understand, If the tool steel could be A2, its not gonna work, where as if the tool steel is W-2 it should be fine.

Welding the sandwich should pose no troubles, IF you are experienced with forge welding, You didn't state if you have tried others welds or if this is your first time. IF first. did you clean it well enough? flux? correct temp?

If you need a primer to help you get started, I have one I wrote at How to make Damascus Blades which explains forge welding and steel types.

[ThomasPowers]

Well he is not trying to do San Mai construction so give San Mai instructions won't help.

One difference with welding on the edge steel, (and by the way "The Celtic Sword" Radomir Pleiner has exampls of this construction in it). is that the welds dont get the multiple passes you get doing pattern welding where each time you weld you essentially weld all the welds over again making them better.

So multiple welding passed as has been mentioned will help.

I keep hoping that James Hrisoulas will chime in as he has a lot of experience in this. IIRC he has mentioned that his new book is going to include some info on this technique.