Barn or shop

[ironrosefarms]

Now that I am back to being able to smith, I have also been bitten again by the bug to put together a real shop. Upto now I drag everything out, then drag everything back away... what a drag!

I have a 20'X30' wooden barn that has only been used for storage for longer than we have lived here. The prior owners never cleaned it out, and I have only half got it done in 7 years (priorities?)

There is some obvious problems with this structure in being used as a smithy and I would appreciate some other folks to give me their thoughts. So here is some details.

Wooden structure (Tulip Poplar?) 20'X30' 9' from floor to rafters.
Wooden floor (big concern) The ground below the wooden floor is clay and due to a natural spring in the area it tends to stay very wet.
No insulation, Tin roof
One sliding door 8' wide 7' tall
No electricity (not a huge deal most of the time, but it would be nice)

If I decide to go with it, all the stored "stuff" will go except for the blacksmithing stuff that I have stored in there already.

So fire away, let me know what you think...

[brucegodlesky]

French drain the water away from the building.Put up a shed roof outside and work underneath it.
Cut the wood floor out and replace with gravel. You have options :-)
Oh, do you own the place??

[MooseRidge]

Before you put in a gravel floor, make sure that you have placed a moisture barrier down first. This includes in the hole of your stump (if wanted/required) and any concrete bases for power hammers (plan ahead) and other items. If you have a gravel floor, you will need to either place the legs of your forge on the dirt/clay floor or attack flat metal "floats" to the legs to prevent the forge from sinking into the gravel and pulling away from your chimney..... This goes for any tables etc....

As far as the structure goes, a quicker method would be to add a layer of fire-rock backer board (the type of thing that goes on walls for wood stoves) to the floor around where the forge and work area will go.... Much cheaper and faster than tearing out the floor....

[dablacksmith]

depends on how much you want to spend ... you could go concrete floor... as far as wood shop goes that isnt a problem (most of the shops ive been in are wood) it sounds like a perfect shop! if it isnt falling apart i think you could make a great shop from a barn! good luck!

[chyancarrek]

Ditto to the above posters.

Go with the barn - if it's structurally sound, you're way ahead of the game then if you started from scratch - all of the things you listed it lacked can be put in as you go.

Moose Ridge is right, plan ahead - check out the floor plans of other shops then come up with your own - give a lot of thought to the kind of smithing you may want to do in the future.

Good luck! Keep us up to date as to the progress!

[ironrosefarms]

I'm not worried about the wood walls, the floor though is a concern. It would never support large equipment and after going in there today I am concerned about the bounce I get walking across the floor. I really don't like white rock for a floor (it is what is in my garage) I find that any metal that makes contact for any period of time becomes highly corroded.

We also got some nasty straight line winds today and I see I now need to get some more tin for the roof as 4 sheets are MIA.

What do you mean by a french drain? I thought about putting a perimeter drain in but to run the drain pipe out would be more than 400 feet to get it out and away.

Cost is a consideration and minimal is probably going to be the key. I thought about removing 1/4 or 1/2 of the floor and putting in a vapor barrier then build it up. Thought about laying brick in and around the work area, I may have a source for more free brick but the idea of having to level the bricks every so often doesn't excite me a whole lot.

I currently have enough brick on hand to build the forge and plan to build a sheet metal hood to reduce the weight and foundation requirements that would be needed in this nasty clay.

Another thing that is of concern is windows, the barn has one window but it looks out into the small lean to on the side (currently metal storage and not big enough to work in30'X6") So I am trying to decide if I want to put windows in the side for light and ventilation.

My bride (16 years last week) asked what I was typing so I said I was wanting to get my shop put together and was asking some other smiths there opinion. She said she would like me to build a shop out front of or beside our garage. If I did this I would probably be looking at a pole barn construction of smaller size, cost being the determining factor. I would still have the same type of issues with the floor. The possibility of electricity would be better in the future though... Heck she got my brain spinnig in two directions at once now...

James

[brucegodlesky]

French drain is when you run a ditch past yer building diverting the stream or natural course of water away. Usually filled with gravel and perforated pipe or tile. Not as dificult as it sounds.

[markb]

16 boy you robed the cradle! just kidding

I'd lay a vapor barrier if possible and reinforce the floor if needed, sounds like the clay is going to stay wet with the spring near by, maybe cover the floor with OSB or ply wood then the cement board.

Cut in a window. Use the building you have, a new one will cost more. Just my .02

[ironrosefarms]

I don't see how the french drain would work. The spring raises the ground water level severely. Three years ago I was auguring out post holes and the water would surface so fast that it would literally run for days, the good news is I didn't have to haul water to mix the concrete. When they put in our new septic when we first moved in they came back to finish back filling the fingers to find the collection tank had floated out of the ground over night (it had been completely buried)... So the clay stays wet wet nearly all year.

I kind of like the building being tucked away, wife thinks by making it visible that it might bring customers... I'd have to sell an awful lot of work to pay for a new building and we don't live on a main road... The only real big advantage to building new is the possibility of electricity... with the barn it would cost a lot to string enough wire to get juice, probably 2-3 poles and a gob of wire...

What is your thoughts on removing a portion of the floor in the barn then installing a vapor barrier then gravel and sand then brick? If you have concrete or brick or a floor of that nature how do you install your leg vice? I've always worked on dirt or gravel???

markb, actually I almost did rob the cradle... she was 16 when we started dating, I was 18. High School sweet hearts, got her to stroll down the isle 3 years later... (now if your good at ciphering you can figure perty close how old I am...)

[markb]

Congratulations on the 16 yrs. Your wife sounds very supportive. And I figure you're still youngsters,

Clay is very unstable, I'd stay with the wood floor to keep a distance from all the moisture, still put a vapor barrier down though, maybe build a metal forge instead of brick to keep the weight down and pour a concrete pedestal to support your anvil and vice or wherever you might need the extra support.

Clay is a very expansive soil, swells when it gets wet, shrinks when dry, so it moves alot, here they make you dig it all out and replace with rock to put a foundation down.

Yours is wet all the time so sounds like a stiff pudding.

Just my thoughts, take 'em with a grain of salt.