Perlite, Silica Sand, and Fireclay

[Glenn]

The English language is flat when typed. You can not see the facial expressions that are many times needed to understand when something is said in fun or in being serious. Usually this can be corrected by or (grin) or LOL or other indications.

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From what I understand the dabbers collect some fine (as in not course) material that some blacksmiths then collected and crush for use as a flux.

I collected a couple of nests before the new dabbers hatched and the nest was divided into compartments, one cocoon per compartment and the rest of the space packed with spiders. The spiders were quite alive and moving but under the influence of something putting them in some sort of suspended state.

You will need to wait till the young dabbers have hatched and then remove the dabber cocoons and any spiders left in the nest (grin).

I would guess that the dabbers should be gone by fall, and can report on the nest as a flux after some testing.

[ThomasPowers]

I was not offended; I was worried that I had offended. The one thing I have learned from experience is that catagorical statements are almost always wrong--life the universe and everything is often so weird that there is almost always an exception to anything you can think of.

Glenn: on the use of dabbers (mud daubers where I come from?) as an inactive flux it should work best for wrought iron that takes real high temps needed to liquify the scale really well and then perhaps mild steel. it will probably be the least useful for high carbon steels which don't like the high temps. (the japanese sword forgers use a clay ash mixture, though I will note that they start at almost 2% carbon content and after many welding cycles end up at 0.5% so decarb is not only tolerated but expected)

[Glenn]

Thanks Thomas, I had mild steel in mind to see if it worked for that application.

[Bentiron1946]

Back on sand, here in the Phoenix Home Depot I can get "silica sand" which is a graded white quartz like sand that is very different from "play sand" which is nothing more then a sterilized "masonry sand". Perelite is sold in the garden section in huge bags at a very reasonable price. I have never found fire clay at my local Home Depot nor fire bricks. For them I need to go to a masonry supply yard. Is this guy building a forge bottom or melting furnace? Collecting Mud Dauber nest for a flux sure seems like a lot of work. If you want to spare the life of the grub wait until spring when they hatch and have consumed the spider. That way the next generation of wasp are ready to prey on garden pests.

[ThomasPowers]

Spiders prey on garden pests too; we had a lovely argiope by the front door this morning...

Of course I don't think I would try that trick with a tarantula hawk!

[irnsrgn]

to much technical data, all flux does is coat the part being heated to prevent oxidation and scale buildup. most people put way to much on anyway, all you need is just enough to make the surface look wet at a red or orange heat.

[rusty_iron]

Gday all,
can I add my 2 cents worth???

Many years ago I had a friend who trained as a boilermaker/blacksmith when they made boilers. He trained in England, building steam trains among other things.

He told me that I could use sand, clean white sand was best, but any would do. The british smiths mostly used sand he said.

Anyway to back this up, I just looked in "The General Blacksmith" by Malcolm Paine, 2007. He is a smith who trained in England and now calls Oz home.

Page 80
"A silica sand is the best to use for a flux. The colour is of no importance. If, when rubbed between the fingers, it feels as if the grains are sharp, it should be alright to use. Avoid beach sand if possible. Borax is used in the same ways as sand, and they can be mixed together to make a flux."

He says to dip into the sand or borax.

hope this helps. I've not tried the sand, but plan to.
Regards
Rusty_iron,
Brisbane, Oz.