Spear Head

[ironrosefarms]

Ok, here I am just restarting in my smithing and I have been asked to make a few Roman Spears. It doesn't look all that hard in shape and such but since I have never done anything simular I thought I would ask for some suggestions. Here is the picture that the guy has sent me. I have thought about using some old mower blades for the stock?
The bottom of the spear is wrapped around to allow for the wood handle to insert.

Suggestions, recommendations, considerations and any other tions you can think of will be much appreciated.

James

[ironrosefarms]

I followed a link I missed the first time I scanned through a earlier spear thread... and found a much better picture that shows me some good detail of the making of the socket in how it transitions from blade to socket.

Still wouldn't mind input however. One challenge I can see is I do not own a mandril... Yet
James

[steve sells]

come up here some weekend I can help you to make your own mandrel. Since I want to make a bick for my new anvil as well. I even have some nice 5160H for making those spears out of somewhere....

[dablacksmith]

spears are a good forgeing excersize ... they are a bit tougher than they look ... you need yo use your pien on the part that wraps around . Try not to get the edges too thin and you aught to get it .. good luck!

[HWooldridge]

I would stick to mild steel for reproductions - no need to fight the higher carbon in a mower blade (unless that's all you have for stock). On the other hand, you could roll the width of the blade into the spear socket, then weld the rest together for the blade.

[ironrosefarms]

Steve that is an awesome offer, not sure how to work that out with my work schedule right now... and I leave for my first week of Boy Scout summer camp in just two weeks, I am playing the roll of Comissioner (sounds important huh!) However I have scheduled two trips to Hartford City later part of July to take my kids to Church camp, I'll check the dates and see if we can get together...

I was digging around my scrap pile earlier and found some mild steel that should fit the bill. The reason I thought about using the mower blades is I have an abundance of them, There is a guy who runs a mowing service and replaces his blades on his 10 mowers 2 times per season and he gives them to me free, since I haven't used any in the past 2 years, I have several. Maybe after I knock out a few in mild I'll make a few out of high carbon for my own play time?

I have been thinking about how to obtain the shape going from the point to the socket, here is two rough drawings I have put together, I am wondering which of the two are most accurate>?

The red line being an approximate for the point to begin the fold to create the socket. The guy does not want the socket welded but just a close seam simular to the second one I pictured above. Thanks for the help, suggestions and gracious offers!

James

[Finnr]

Roman spears tended to have split sockets. Being very pragmatic in military matters weapons tended to be produced as cheaply as possible while retaining quality. Bruce Blackstone has a tutorial on spearheads over on Anvilfire that may help. As soon as I snag someone to do pictures while I forge I'm putting together a BP for this site.
Finnr

[ironrosefarms]

Finnr, took me a while but I finally found the tutorial on Anvilfire. SWORDS OF IRON, SWORDS OF STEEL Article by Bruce Blackistone

The design is slightly different to my eye but enough simular to make this very helpful!

Thanks
James

[JohnW]

They had a thing on TV a year or two ago, I'm pretty sure it was about the Romans fighting the Celts. I don't know where this guy got his information, but he made a big deal about how the Roman spears were used to disable the shields. The spear head, including the socket was supposed to be about 3' long or some such gigantus dimension, so that a thrown spear would stick into the shield. Then the defender would have to put down his shield to remove the spear (or discard the shield) since the length of the spear head put the handle far enough out that it was not convient for the defender to chop it off with his sword or ax.

[matt87]

That's about the long and the short of it John. It's a specific type of thrown spear called a pilum; a weapon unique to Legionnaries (the main division of the Roman Army). The long head had an added advantage in that, the long, skinny part being only 1/4", it bent easily. Therefore chuck it once, it bends and it won't fly straight if it's cucked back at you. Post battle, it can be cold forged back straight. Each Legionary carried 2-3 into battle, and the first order of battle was to launch them all at the enemy ranks while they were a ways off; it removes their shields, thins their numbers and disrupts any formation they may have.